"15mm flags for Guilford C.H." Topic

I'm just getting started on painting up the Brit forces for G.C.H. in 15mm. I was hoping there might be a company that sells british flags on sheets for specific battles. If not, any recommendations for where I can find flags for the appropriate regiments would be appreciated (23rd,
33rd,71st Highlanders, Guards, &
Von Bose's Hessian Regiment.

I did check Cotton Jim but no luck on any of the above.

Thanks!

Solved!
link

The Guards did NOT have flags.

MY Guards do, but I gave them a stand back in my impressionable youth…

I got my designs from a book of Napoleonic flags.
We all know that with converged LI and grenadier battalions, the companies were taken from their parent regiments. The colours belonged to the REGIMENT, so no flags came along.

While each Guard Company had colours, in this case, drafts were taken from each company. So, again, the colours stayed with the company, and did not accompany the drafts to America.
At least, that is how it was explained to me. But I still am not taking their colours away.

Thanks John! I figured they did not when I didnt see any available on the Vaubanner site.

I got an Old Farts Dispensation for them. As long as they do not go out in public and scare the horses, they can keep their colours.
They were hand painted back in the 1980s, and still holding up pretty well.

I'm not sure if the Guards carried flags or not. They certainly left the official colors in England. However, flags were very important at this time in order to maintain alignment, as rallying points, etc.

There's a 'home-made' British flag in Brazil, (I think), that was captured during the Napoleonic wars during the British invasion of South America. it was carried by a unit that left their colors at home.

I would not be surprised at all to find that the Guards carried something along those lines.

However, flags were very important at this time in order to maintain alignment, as rallying points, etc.

Were they really? The grenadiers and LI didn't need them.
And some regiments, like the 17th lost them TWICE, and were not allowed to get more.
Many regiments didn't even bother bring them into the field anyway.

From my experiance reenacting, I'd say that they're very important. Trying to keep several hundred people aligned is very hard and having the flags make it much easier.

During the ACW some units lost two flags at Gettysburg because they kept spares in the supply train to issue immediatly in case one was lost.

There's a big difference in being an experienced reenactor and a trained soldier from the 18th century. The latter would have hundreds of hours or even years of training and drill practice that would greatly exceed that of even the most dedicated reenactor group. Since I am neither I can't say with complete certainty to what degree flags were used or not used during the AWI, but I am very confident that the Brigade of Guards did not carry standards in North America. There is the New School thought that maybe the regular British regiments did not carry their standards into the field during the war. ( that said, I'm still keeping them on my British regiments because they look too cool not to use them )

Another reason why the left and right flank files are occupied by serjeants and corporals ;)

There were small flags called "camp colours" carried by each company, though not usually in battle (about the same size and style as the company fanions carried by sergeants in the French infantry in Napoleonic times). Several sets of these – including one for the Composite Guards Brigade – were sent over to America late on in the AWI.

I would agree with DAF that their absence was not as big an issue as "received wisdom" would have us believe. British battalions in the AWI were small – typically <300 all ranks – so maintaining alignment was not an issue, and the troops knew their officers well enough to respond (or not!) to any calls to "rally" or whatever. More importantly perhaps, the battlefields were not as crowded as those of Europe and recognising one's own unit amongst many (which I suspect was more important in a crisis) was not so crucial. Interestingly, the Composite Guards Brigade was originally intended to be a single battalion of 1,000 souls, until Howe re-structured it to two 350-strong battalions and a couple of semi-independent flank companies (even then, there were complaints that 90-100 man companies were too big for 3 officers to manage in action).

British units first started leaving colours behind in the FIW (I believe after a general order to do so, but I'm not sure from whom). Whilst that war was fought in terrain more akin to Saratoga, which was the exception in the AWI, it seems logical that Sir William Howe would try to continue the practice in the type of close farmland around Boston, New York and Philadelphia.

This next is just a theory on my part, but one thing I have noticed is that, aside from a few regiments not long out from Europe which tended to be very large (often >800 or so – eg the 76th and 80th in the South) the rare references to colours being carried in the field almost always relate to the senior regiment in each brigade (9th at Saratoga, 17th at Princeton, 23rd at Camden); this could just be coincidence, or it could be that the focus of any alignment was shifted to the right of each brigade formation, a brigade being generally around 800-1000 men, and thus more typical of European-sized battalions.

"There's a big difference in being an experienced reenactor and a trained soldier from the 18th century. The latter would have hundreds of hours or even years of training and drill practice that would greatly exceed that of even the most dedicated reenactor group."

Hmmm. I'll take some exception to that (being a re-enactor) Firt off, re-enactors are far better educated than your typical 18th century man – meaning, they are "brighter" and easier to train in a shorter period of time. I have been re-enacting for close to 40 years. Ouch. The real units were often filled with recruits who had minimal training, especially in larger battalion formations. Howe did some field training at Halifax and NY with his regiments, but for how long?

A read of Ewald's diary, or most others for that matter, show most soldiers days were filled with dreary grudge work of guard mounts, fatigue duties, etc, not drill and maneuvers.

I'm not saying re-enactors are better (or worse,), but you do have to take into account the edcuational differences, and what the real soldiers did with most of their time.

As an AWI reenactor my observation has been that terrain is the most decisive obstacle to maintaining order, particularily when in a woods. My focus is on orders and the man on my right. The real soldiers had the ultimate distraction of being in a life and death situation and seeing people killed and maimed. I don't think flags bring that much order to the line. I would say that even as a reenactor it can be quite stirring to march with the colors or have them paraded before you prior to battle. I can understand the psychological bump they could give soldiers and how they could be used to rally a unit on the run.

Supercilius Maximus,So your theory is the senior regiment in the brigade would carry their colors. So the other battalions could line up off of them. Also so the higher ups can see where their brigades are located on the field?

To me this sounds like a reasonable theory. Are there more engagements where you have noticed this other than the three you posted? Or I guess maybe another question would be, have you notice this being common when certain Generals were in command?

It really is only a theory and it is only based on just the handful of actions where I have been able to ascertain that colours were actually carried, I'm afraid. And no, it doesn't seem to be peculiar to any specific generals – the three examples relate to Mawhood (a lowly Lt Col standing in as a brigade CO), Burgoyne and Cornwallis.