"Not much on here about Dead Man's Hand?" Topic

Anyone played it yet??

It seems very expensive "IF" you need the individual expansions in order to use the rules. Upwards of 100 pounds.

If the expansions are just "extra" stuff then its more reasonable. But as there has been little to no explanation offered, I'll wait.

If you have some wild west minis already all you need is the rules and the card deck that comes with them (part of the rules purchase).

The additional figure packs are for anyone starting to venture into Wild West gaming, although they look very nice and I may add to my existing collection.

The rules play with a card based activation- you deal a card to each figure and activate in card order. Additionally you hold a hand of 3-5 cards that you can play at any time depending on the wording on the card.

Seems like a nice set of rules but I have yet to play a game.

The "expansions" are not really that but packs. With it you get the core rule book, tokens and a gang of 7 guys with their special cards. Hopefully they will sell those cards separate.

I just started reading my copy last night, so far they look like clean fun rules.

The main rulebook comes with cards for two players. If you have models, this is all you need.

There are additional tokens available, but they're obviously not necessary to play the game. Essentially you need 20 pounds.

The miniatures are just available if you need them, same with the tokens. There was an article about the game in WS&S this month.

"The "expansions" are not really that but packs. With it you get the core rule book, tokens and a gang of 7 guys with their special cards."
Are you certain that you get the core rule book with each expansion? I thought you only got the miniatures and cards associated with them. If you wanted to get all the available sets then you would have a rule book in each set?
That makes me wonder. The miniatures from what has been posted on the website do look nice but are very expensive per cost per miniature.

Sorry Disco,

I only looked at page one on the start packs, you are correct and am incorrect in my above statement

A blogger buddy of mine just bought this at Salute. He's a very nice gentleman and I'm sure he would be most happy to tell you what he thinks of the rules. Here's the link to his blog.

link

Yo only need the rule book which comes with the deck of cards. The single card in the boxes of figures is a summary of the gang rules in the book.

The game is JUST historical old west, right?

That genre peaked in 2004 with Legends of the Old West. We played the snot out of that game. Th problem now is if someone talks about a WW game, people say, "It's like LotOW" and, "yeah, we should play that again for old time's sake"

Unless you're brining something new to the table like Wild West Exodus, it's bit of a seen it, been there, done that yawner.

Stuart has an article/interview on the game already published in WARGAMES SOLDIERS & STRATEGY (The one with the chariots on the cover) I'm gearing up to write a 'Let's play…' article.So watch this space. There are superficial similarities to LEGENDS, flicking through, but overall I suspect the deck-driven system means it will play very differently.
Watch this space.

I prefer to give each new game the benefit of the doubt. LOTOW is very expensive and hard to find. Dismissing new games is hardly the way to attract new players to the genre.

Dismissing new games is hardly the way to attract new players to the genre.

Since I already have perfection in LotOW, the trick is for the new game to show me why it's better.

That genre peaked in 2004 with Legends of the Old West. We played the snot out of that game. Th problem now is if someone talks about a WW game, people say, "It's like LotOW" and, "yeah, we should play that again for old time's sake"

That might be the experience for your group, but that's hardly universal. Lot of new interest for a genre you think peaked almost a decade ago.

LotOW isn't in production anymore, correct? Is it even still available?

With Dead Man's Hand, Blackwater Gulch, and other games coming out, it's a good time to be getting into the Old West.

Mr Elmo seems to think that he is the touchstone for the universe. Waiting for him to come back and have the last word…

I've never seen a copy of LOTOW for less than $70. USD While at the same time BWG and TRWNN are free.

Waiting for him to come back and have the last word…

I'm waiting for someone to take up my challenge and tell me how a new game is better than LotOW. All I have so far is availability which is a bit specious since the PDFs are all over ( and "free")

You can have the best game in the world, but if I can't buy a copy, it means nothing to me. For new players like myself, availability is extremely important and relevant to my choice of what game I play.

Have you had a look at the website, Mr Elmo – link – 'cos there's quite a bit about DMH on there, plus recent issues of Wargames, Soldiers & Strategy and Wargames Illustrated have had in depth features.

Have you had a look at the website

I just did and, unless I'm missing something there isn't a campaign system with Warband Advancement; for me, this is a non starter.

Card activation vs IGOUGO is a wash. The game itself seems fine but (again, for me) lacks a new "innovative mechanic"

Mr. Elmo, if you're stuck in the GW-world of gaming there is little any of us can say to dissuade you. LOTOW was neat (I have a full set of the books gathering dust on my shelf) for a short period.

At the end of the day, it was just another GW Necromunda/Mordheim game and actually a good bit less-fun than even those.

LOTOW (as with all GW games) was about building a posse to a points cost, then hoping to power-max your characters and get the upper hand on your opponent. That's all well and good if you're a competitive/tournament style gamer. Sadly it lacks the best element of the Old West: fun.

I know quite a few Old West gamers, and I don't think I know of any who chose LOTOW by choice as a rule set. That probably tells you something. The dry-rigid-rinse-repeat process of LOTOW really becomes a bore by comparison to other rule sets.

I have not played DMH, but FFOL, Gutshot, TRWNN are all much more intriguing/interesting/fun to play than LOTOW. Heck I could run you a game of Shoot N' Skedaddle and you'd probably never play LOTOW again. :D

Well, Mr Elmo, hopefully you'll take another look when the campaign system stuff comes out.

hopefully you'll take another look

Oh sure, that's how the current best ruleset get replaced by the nest best ruleset.

It will happen eventually, Bolt Action replaced Battleground WWII, etc.

I bought the rules at Salute and love them. As for LotW being the best rules I disagree. I bought the first LotW rules when they came out and loved the book. I thought that Mark had done a cracking job putting the book together. I them bought each supplement as they were released and unfortunately the quality dropped with each additional book. The final book just seemed like a random bunch of thoughts dragged together and then put into a book. My main problem with LotW was the turn sequence, as it is based on Lord of the Rings, a larger battle game with less terrain. In Lotw getting the initiative didn't help at all, you get it move all you fella's first and then look on in horror as your opponent then moves all their figures so you no longer have LOS to the majority of his figures but one or two of your guys are staring down the barrel of the entire opponents gangs guns. Now granted you get to fire first but it doesn't make any difference in the long run….I really don't like keeping track of ammo either.

As for the progression, within two or three games you end up with a guy that becomes a one man killing machine, hitting on a 2+, carrying a pistol in each hand.

I'm curious to see how the Dead Man's Hand guys are going to approach progression with the next book, I spent some time talking to them at Salute and liked some of the ideas, though at the moment there are no details.

Just my 2p's worth.

THOG

Mr Elmo: That genre peaked in 2004 with Legends of the Old West.

Not to blow our own horn, but the Origins Award for "Historical Miniatures Game or Expansion of the Year" that we won in 2005 for GUTSHOT might beg to differ about when (or if) the genre has peaked.
link
Not to brag, but we had some stiff competition and actually beat the Flames of War Italian expansion (it was considered by most people to be the front runner in the category).
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LotOW was a good game. I'm not going to say otherwise. I like it and it's fun to play. But it does have shortcomings (as do all our game systems, including Gutshot). It is absolutely not the game I would choose to play on a Saturday afternoon (in fact, I doubt I've played it since 2006). I would choose Gutshot (hardly a surprise). But it's not because we made the game, it's because we made a game we actually wanted to play. It has a flexibility to handle almost any style of play and it doesn't make it easy to min/max your gang.

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But on to the original question: I haven't played Dead Man's Hand, yet. I'm sure I'll get around to it eventually, though. I enjoy Western games and I'm bound to pick it up eventually. I certainly wish the best to everyone involved with it.

Mike Mitchell
Hawgleg Publishing