"Card based initiative" Topic

OK, this question might not be the easiest one.

I am looking to modify an existing set of /skirmish rules. Setting is post WWI although I domnot think this really matters. Games are menat to cater for anything from a few squads per side to company sized with vehiclualr support.

Akctivation should be card based (or a similar system that has fate decided which unit acts when). Itmshould not be U go, I go.

What I am lookingmfor is a system that works fast on larger games, but still allows for things like officers/NCOs giving orders at at independant moments (= not onlymwhen the unit the lead is activated) or for vehicle crews not to act in perfect concert (= the main gun is not always loaded with the right type of ammo the moment the crew is activated).

So do you know of a system that acomplishes that? How does it do that / how does it work. How is vehicular movement handled iunder that system?

Thanks in advance,

Burkhard

Nuts from THW has some of what you are after. Although the meta control is igo, ugo, the reaction tests get rid of that almost instantly. You can try the system for free by downloading chain reaction 3.0 (I think) to see if it's got a lot of what you want.

Each crew in a vehicle is rated and the crew may not be able to reload in time for what you want, and of course, you designate what is loaded when you reload.

Option 1
Give each squad a card, then a card (or cards) for each leader.

Option 2
Give cards an activation value (1-5 say) A 5 card could activate anything, a 4 anything rated 4, etc…
squads/troopers = level 5
Best leaders are level 1
(so any card can activate a top notch leader, while only the rarer 5 cards can activate a squad)

Burkhard:

Isn't IABSM something like what you're looking for. Beg pardon if not. I played one game of IABM several years ago, but recall it is card based and not IGOGO. Dean

Burkhard

"I Ain't Been Shot Mum" does indeed sound just what you are looking for. Focus is on company level actions plus support. Activation is by card with uncertain turn length, although you can change that if it isn't to your taste. Cards are usually at platoon level and allow all sub-units within the platoon (eg British sections or US squads) to be activated. The same principle applies to armour, where activation is by troop (US platoon). Most support weapons have their own cards (eg MMGs, mortars or off-table artillery) and some qualify for bonus cards due to high rate of fire or other factors which can be scenario specific (eg a bonus activation for MMGs).

Key leaders are designated as "big men" of various status levels, which broadly determine their influence on the battlefield. There are guidelines on how many big men to have per unit as not all leaders are big men. However, that is easily changed if you want all platoon/section commanders to be big men (or whatever you choose to call them). The point is that big men have their own cards which can be used in a variety of ways, eg to activate sub-units before their own card has been turned up, to direct fire (which gets a bonus), to spot, rally disordered troops, or move independently around the battlefield.

It really is a very clever system and was also adapted with slightly different activation mechanics in its younger brother "Troops, Weapons and Tactics". That deals with platoon level actions rather than company with sections/squad cards. Activation utilises separate "tactical initiative tallies" which determine how much a leader of status I, II, III or IV can achieve when his card is drawn.

Both are worth a look if you are interested in card driven systems which attempt to model the unpredictability of 20th century warfare and the key role played by leaders.

IABSM is almost exactly what you're describing.
Edit: As Mr Chicken has described. I'll just add it's good for a platoon up to a company+ per side and is infantry centred but handles armour well.

Or Troops Weapons and Tactics – which is the level down from IABSM (IABSM- command a company, TW&T command a Platoon)

What Some Chicken and Agent Brown said. Take a look at TooFatLardies.co.uk

I would purchase Piquet to be able to review what is probably the most elaborate anti-IGOUGO systems.

I always thought the simplest way to modify an otherwise good set of rules is to take a deck of cards, assign a color or a suit to each player, and then allow them an action upon each turn of the card. In a "unit"-based game, this could work well, maybe not so much in an element-based game (like a DBX or such). The use of a deck of cards guarantees everyone gets a chance, unlike the straight-up use of impetus points and the like used by Piquet and other similar systems.

Why not use Face Of Battle?

I am very curious to see the direction you go here Burkhard.
You got me all addicted to Face of Battle. There just seems to be no good way to bring in the tanks without finding the middle ground for them.

PJ is right you know.

Nods to Some Chicken and Agent Brown: IABSM sounds exactly what you're looking for.

The card activation system combined with 'big men' emphasises differences in command/control, and also allows the inclusion of random events, special cards (heroic leaders/hesitant leaders/poor fire discipline etc)

Other nice touches with it are: if you are under fire (whether you're hit or not), your own fire is affected and I particularly like the way morale is handled.

As a unit takes fire, it accumulates casualties and 'shock' points. These affect firing and forward movement.

An important leadership role is to remove shock points.

Once the shock points exceed the number of figures in the section or team, they will start to withdraw (the amount of excess shock dictating how far and whether they'll eventually stop) which is an elegant way of having a unit's morale gradually erode rather than an all or nothing morale check.

A further thought : TFL's WW1 rules : 'Through the Mud and the Blood' have a (free?) supplement called 'Triumphant Standards' specifically aimed at between the world wars conflicts.

The mechanics are very similar to IABSM but tweaked to WW1.

This may be a ready-made solution to your problem.

Might as well mention 'Arc of Fire' as one that covers all 20th Century warfare using a card based activation. Training is more important than equipment. You can influence events even when your card is not drawn – uses 1-3 cards per unit (if you wish – standard is two) to really differentiate training. Spotting (which is better described as situational awareness and ability to react to events around you- though this would be a big header on your QRC!)is also at the heart of the rules.
Inexpensive with no need of modules. Book gives examples of scenarios from The Boxer Rebellion through South Africa. Works for conventional and insurgent groups. Never gets old. Cannot speak to the others mentioned though all look to be good, fun systems.

THank you for the input guys.

I will take a look at IABSM first, since that got the most references here.

Since I saw that a lot of the comments were going that way… I am not looking for a new set of rules, but rather for an activation system to surplant into an existing one. Right now we are using the above mention Face of Battle. While I feel that it handles initiative very well, we usually host large games with it at convnetion and I have seen people shy away from to to the number of cards. While Imfeelmthat this is not justified, I still want to take that psychological barrier away from people , whihc is why I am looking for an alternative.

So in this sense, thank you all again for your input!

Burkhard

We have experimented quite a lot with card-driven activation.

You gain a lot of flexibility by allowing each player to hold a hand of cards, rather than drawing cards every turn and then acting on only that single card.

Then, if you have cards that allow you to 'activate any unit'or something general like that, it is very easy to insert special actions into the normal flow. Cfr. the boardgames Battlecry, Memoir44, Command&Colors.

A good inspiration on what you can do with card-driven activation: Magic the Gathering :-)
Seriously.
MTG has cards that modify other cards played, has interrupt cards to interrupt a card played by the opponent etc.

You can use systems like that to activate units, but then also have cards you play in conjunction with cards such as granting additional movement of firepower.
Or, you can play cards that affect an opponent's cards, giving disadvantages to the opponent.

At one point we also experimented with morale tests that were only triggered when you played a card on your opponent. The cool thing was that you were never in control when your troops had to take a morale test (it was the opponent's decision); badly shaken troops were likely to attract morale test; troops still in good condition were less likely to get cards played on them.

As you see, a lot you can do with cards :-)

Ah, yes. Good point. In that case would recommend GMT's 'Combat Commander' as another model of doing things.