"Salute Best of Show Pictures - Chaos in Normandy - " Topic

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The demo of which I played a small part won best of show Saturday at Salute the No 1 UK Gaming show. The demo was the work of Neil Tew of the Nantwich Gamers – Titled Chaos in Normandy, and which depicted elements of Operation Bluecoat, namely Guards Armoured meeting a 12SS Battlegroup. Myself, Neil, Andy and Les staffed the table, the credits go as follows:

Vehicles : Me (Troop of Shewe), Bruce Murray, Andy (Nantwich Gamers)
Figures: Toby (Artmaster Studio)
Terrain: Dave (TM Terrain)

The figures, armour and table are Neil Tew's, with the Churchill based armoured brigade being Andies.

My thanks to all for another great Salute, any ??? just shout

neil@troop-of-shewe.co.uk

Neil, is it my understanding that most of your conventions are only for one day? Do you guys have anything like HISTORICON that last over a weekend? This looks like a beautiful game, thanks for posting.

Mark

yes there are plenty of 2 day shows, but the one day ones were better for some traders like myself
nice pics neil

The only uk two day event that I am familiar with is the bovington Show, the "Tank Museum" show, I'm sure there are others though, I don't think resources would permit Salute being two days.

I must say another well run show in a premier location, maybe a big shed but im looking at the toys not the rafters! An awful lot of work from both organisers and clubs that I think gets missed in some comments. Well done to all, and many thanks to Neil Tew for presenting the game.

'Twas a lovely looking game to behold as I ran past, sirs: very nice!

John T

We have a few 2 day shows, much much smaller than Salute, here are some I attend:

paw2013.co.uk

ddwg.org.uk

There are no doubt a good few more including Bovington as noted above.

Michael.

I have been wondering how many demo games, which I assume are not open to public participation, are run at a con in the U.K. compared with the number of public participation games?

Here in the U.S. I have never attended a con where demo games weren't open to the public. When I think of demo games I think of companies putting on their newest game so the public can get a chance to play it and spread the good/bad word about it.

Neil – congratulations. A worthy winner.

Most of the two day shows also have tournaments.

The Triples in Sheffield is a big 2 day trade show with a few small tournaments.

Warfare in Reading is a big 2 day trade show with a big 2 day tournament.

Britcon is a 3 day tournament with a small trade show.

:EDIT: Stunning game BTW. Absolutely gorgeous.

Am I correct in thinking that Brit demonstration games are simply a way for clubs to highlight their projects through a dioramic- like presentation with a high degree of artistry?Are these games actually played by the club members,or are they simply set up for people to look at? Either way,there are some real beauties to admire. Phil Hall is right in stating that here in the US,demonstration games are a way for companies to familiarize people with a new system through a hands on approach.

There is an ongoing discussion on whether demos are played and demonstrated " in action " or just large vignettes. All demos That i have presented or have been involved in show war gaming and are therefore played, as this one was. You don't get a full "club night" game as you have to balance engaging with the public as well, which is important.

I don't do participation games as its not my thing and my nerves wouldn't last with some else using my "toys" but my hat is off to those who do, and they are invaluable at getting new and old comers into the hobby.

I'm sure the fact that the Waterloo demo wasn't " played" had an influence on the judges decision, it is a war gaming event and therefore attempts should be made to play (IMHO)

A great looking game.

I've always though that wargames shows should only have games that are there to be played, either by those who put the game on or members of the public. I've actually got rather bored of seeing great looking wargame sized static dioramas at shows. They seem kind of pointless in the context of the hobby they supposedly represent. I agree with Troop of Shewe – it would seem unfair to award best game to a static diorama. In the same vein I found it unfair that small groups of figures on tall display plinths have won best wargame unit in the painting competition when they are pure military modelling and couldn't possibly be used in a game.

I'd like to see some more images of the game if possible. I searched thru' the link with no success ?

Otherwise looking very inspiring !

It's the folder with the big " best of show" trophy showing!

Cracking job Neil, however not a feather in sight! ;0) well done a lovely looking game

Hi karl, don't have a working email for you, drop us a line.

Will do Neil its Lowthians at aol dot com :))

Are they 20mm or 28mm? I was trying to work it out by identifying the infantry but without success.
Either way, magnificent.

28mm (1/56th) using Kampfgroup Overloard ruleset.

Much deserved award, well done.

"I don't do participation games as its not my thing and my nerves wouldn't last with some else using my "toys" but my hat is off to those who do"…I love your work but as someone who let's others play with my "toys" I really think what you do is modeling, not wargaming…your "games" are just large diorama's…they look great but they are not wargames. They do serve as inspiration to the rest of us though so keep it up.

db

Outstanding! A new benchmark of excellence has been set I would say…

I never knew about demo games of that kind in the UK. I thought when the term demo was used it meant that someone was demoing rules to players who participate in the game to learn the rules. I had no idea people come to watch other people play.

So, if I have this right, a club puts together the terrain, minis, and game and brings it to a show to play by themselves while the crowd watches?

I find that a little…odd. Nothing wrong with it of course. The UK sets the standard for terrain, minis, and spectacles. I just never knew about this aspect of UK convention wargaming. Is that for most conventions, or just Salute or other big shows?

American wargaming is almost all participatory (that I have seen anyway), at least for HMGS historical conventions and the others I have been to.

As far as minis getting broken and damaged…I have been running games at conventions for over ten years and I have never had anything horrifying happen to my toys. I know there ARE those horror stories out there mind you.

Anyway, amazing work as always Neil et al. Carry on then.

Stunning work chaps, well deserved,

kev

"I never knew about demo games of that kind in the UK. I thought when the term demo was used it meant that someone was demoing rules to players who participate in the game to learn the rules. I had no idea people come to watch other people play.

So, if I have this right, a club puts together the terrain, minis, and game and brings it to a show to play by themselves while the crowd watches?"

I would say it is the norm for most UK shows. There have over the last 10 years or so been a lot more participation games at shows, latterly these have been of increasing quality (see the Frothers games etc) however they would still make up a minority of games on display.

I'm just wondering how much some of these games actually cost to put on, in terms of having terrain custom built, figures custom painted etc without the additional costs of transport, hotel/B&B etc?

The norm in the UK – and certainly the standard at Salute is:

A) Particpation games are actively encouraged. They are puut on by either Clubs or manufacturers (mostly the former, even at Salute). The general idea is for people to get an idea of a set of rules OR to play a short fun game for an hour or so. These are (as far as I'm aware) ALWAYS free to enter with minimal booking on a mostly first come first served basis.

B) Demonstration games are always welcome, if they are beutiful to look at or have some other redeeming feature. Watching two guys play a Warhammer* match against each other is certainly not done at Salute: what would be the point? That sort of ting is generally reserved for competition tournaments.

The advantage of Demo games is that they usually are showcases for painting and terrain building (not disimilar to the painting competition: after all, peple don't paint stuff 'on the day' they paint nice stuff and bring it to show others, and maybe win a gong).

The advantage of party games (my favourite type) is self explanatory: it involves other gamers.

And there's nothing to stop the toys and scenery being great too!

John T

* Or Flames of War or anything else

Yep, UK club gamers come along for a day and play their game while punters look on and get ignored (harsh). The gamers get to use a big table, and get free entry.

The "benefit" to the punters is to look at their awe inspiring game/terrain and envy.

What does not happen (normally) is, even if a punter is extremely interested in the game/rules, will they be allowed to play for a turn or two. That is just not British. Even though that might be a great way to learn the rules, or sort out some difficulties in understanding the rules.

As the above thread says – people are nervous of their toys, which is understandable.

And sometimes participation games are used as play pens so parent punter can foist off their offspring while they wander the show. As a result, some particiation games use very simple rules, and often non-wargame figures/terrain (breakfast cereal packets?) to allow for a "fun" game that lasts for around 45mins to one hour.

Welcome to the UK show scene. It does indeed sound very different to the US version.

What we are strating to get though is the manufacturers/publishers of rules running trial games showcasing their rules. That is a good idea. But maybe that is just not practicable for wargames clubs. Better for teh punter sometimes, but harder for the clubs.

There are some games at US shows that are exclusive-they are by invitation only,so its not as if all games are completely open all the time.Also,game masters can try to curb their audiences somewhat by putting limits,such as nobody under 18 or experience with the rules only types.Barring that,you can go to open gaming and hand select your players.

"So, if I have this right, a club puts together the terrain, minis, and game and brings it to a show to play by themselves while the crowd watches?"

I haven't seen a direct answer to this question…my impression, particularly from the WWII game that started this concersation, is that there is no "game"…it is a static display, that, as others have pointed out, is intended to showcase the models and terrain and inspire others…which is fine. But I didn't get the impression that at any point in the convention anyone actually used the display as a game…no one moved anything or rolled dice. The pictures we have of the display are not a moment in a game, but that's the way it looked all day.

db

Knowing Neil – Troops of Shewe, he would ahve played the game, indeed when I had the honour to take part in the Aztec game back in 2007 we played to a conclusion at all events.

What we did was discuss the rules, figures, history and painting etc with punters at any and all attempts rather than play the game

To clarify, the Normandy demo, WAS PLAYED, in fact there is pictorial evidence in the photoset of both Andy and Neil T playing it. I have deliberately editted the pics to remove dice and other gaming bits and bobs to make them more visually appealing. If you follow the pictures you will see the Churchill attack blunted by the 12SS, the hit markers give it away!

As also was mentioned, the point is not just to play and have people watch, the point is to engage with the public, discuss the game, terrain, rules, painting etc etc it is a two way communication. We also took to care to have, as was possible with only four people, two people playing and one talking at the heavy times, although i admit we had downtime at lunch. I personally had just about lost my voice by the end of the day, anyone coming near the table would have been badgered by me for questions! (I was the one in the brown Glastonbury T-shirt)

As for what i do being showcase/diorama quality, yes, that is what i do, it is also the quality I play with, routinely, and at my local club.

As for expense, the Nantwich guys came down from, err, Nantwich, hired a van, stayed overnight in a hotel friday and drove back up North the Saturday to drop off before 12pm, as did a lot of other people helping with games and stands over the weekend. This was our totally our expense to show the game, Neil T doesn't have deep pockets, this was his labour of love for the past three odd years. Neil T, Andy and Les are three gamers from a club of three, no vast resources, all with families and jobs, I was invited to help (as i had painted the odd vehicle). I'm happy to have partipated in this endeavour and had a great game on Saturday, and the award was rightly Best of Show at a WarGAMING event, its not a model railway show but with toy soldiers.