"Shotguns at WW1" Topic

Reading this document, took my atention that the germans paid atention and protest because the US Army soldiers used shotguns against them in the Western front.

link

The US soldiers were the only ones who used shotguns?

Thanks in advance for your guidance.

Amicalement
Armand

Interesting post! Sorry I can't answer your query I'm just taken that in a war in which poison gas was used pretty much indiscriminately that the Germans should object to a repeating shotgun!

I would imagine that being thrown out of a script meeting for Blackadder 4 as ridiculous!

I know that some Lee – Enfield mk iii rifles were converted to "muskets", firing a .410 shotgun shell. To the best of my (very limited) knowledge, this was done post – war, for police work in India. On the only example of the weapon I have ever seen up close, the box magazine had been removed, and the empty well filled up with a wooden plug. As to the use of such weapons by Great Britain during the war, I don't know.

Ron

The shot casing was cardboard which didn't do well in the mud. That's the only reason they were'nt used more.

The Germans also complained our Marines used sharpened entrenching tools, pistols and sacks of grenades.

The rate of issue for the shotguns works out to about one man in 50 having a shotgun.

They might have made an impression well above their actual rate of issue, since the shotgun not only had a bayonet mount, it also didn't have a trigger interruptor. This means that you could hold the trigger back and cycle the pump as fast as you could. 5 #00 buck shells (makes for 54 roughly 9mm pellets) downrange in under two seconds.

Yes and they had an 11 shot capacity to boot. That had to throw some lead down range. As a trench fighting weapon it sounds near perfect.

As they had exposed lead on the projectile they were actually in violation of at least one or more clauses of the various late 19th – early 20th century conventions/treaties.

And that is what the Germans complained about. Also still applies to their use in WW2 and today – another reason for the push to steel shot for shotguns, but blamed on the 'environmentalists'.

Only exception was for use against 'uncivilised' enemies – e.g. Moro's or Malays, who wouldn't lie down when shot. That exception also allowed the use of expanding and undersized explosive rounds.

The German command had a written an order saying that any with that weapon taken prisioner had to be shoot in the spot.(?!)

Amicalement
Armand

The German command had a written an order saying that any with that weapon taken prisioner had to be shoot.(?!)

Amicalement
Armand

I imagine this sort of complaint was pretty common, especially late war, with both sides making claims of atrocity. That's how it usually goes.

Yes and they had an 11 shot capacity to boot. That had to throw some lead down range. As a trench fighting weapon it sounds near perfect.

Not the Winchester Model 1897, nor the Model 12. Both of those are 5+1 in the chamber jobs with 2 3/4" shells.

If you'd like to acquire a replica of one, Norinco makes a tolerable facsimile (that's hard to find these days). All the markings on the one I owned were electric pencil engraving, not heavy stamps like the originals. I regret selling the one I had, but I needed a roof over my head more than I needed the shotgun.

Lion in the Stars

Fortunately did not have to sell mine. I even found an original bayonet to attach. It is now racked beside the Springfield, Lee Enfield, Mauser etc. Great replica.