"Panzer Blitz using miniatures?" Topic

I am going to put on a club game in a few months based on an old Panzer Blitz scenario. Going through my WW2 rules, I just don't want to use SH, CD, BKC, IABSM, yadayadayada. I got the idea, "Why not use good old Panzer Blitz?". It seems simple, fast and fun. It was a mega hit back in swinging 70's. Anyone use this for miniatures?

In the attic I have a very dusty set of rules which was essentially just a complete PB/PL ripoff albeit with the addition of vehicle ramming rules:)

I have certainly played PB/PL with minis, the biggest pain is looking up the combat factors from a seperate chart as they aren't printed on on the models. This slows things down to a suprising degree.

Much of the flow of the game is also dependant on the layout of the maps, particular things like roads going though woods hexsides, so you need to try and model the nuances as best as you can.

Offset squares are a good substitute for hexes and much easier to draw.

They used miniatures with the Panzer/88/ Armor series from Yaquinto. So I do not see why Panzerblitz and the Western Europe front version could not be used.

I have used Panzer Leader for miniatures games. The tanks and men in 1/285th scale and using 4" GHQ Terrain Maker hexes for the terrain. Works great. I think you need to use Panzer Leader rules no matter what….iirc, in Panzer Blitz there was no opportunity fire or some such, and that led to it being called "Panzer Bush."

Also, the White Star Rising series of WW2 rules from Lock 'N Load adapts the same way to miniatures….a good set of rules that I have used, along with the modern war period World At War series, for miniatures games.

If you choose to use either of these games for miniatures, convert the info on the counters to charts for the players. Either make one big chart for each nationality, or just put the weapons types for the items in the day's scenario on a sheet (This is probably ideal…the sheet won't be cluttered…easier to use for quick reference during the game. I have used this method and it works great!)

Was thinking of forgoing the hexes/squares. Was hoping to have a board display with the CRT, other tables instead of cheat sheets. Maybe making tags for the minis with attack, defense, range, move values on them. Might have to figure out some type of simple command structure as it seems the platoons just roam around on their own doing whatever they like.

If you don't want hexes, you could simply measure everything. So, if you go with 4" hexes and a gun has a range of 8 hexes, then on your table it is 32". Another great reason for the scenario sheet…it will have the converted movement rates, firing ranges, etc…..

I think the hex terrain is easier to use….measuring is eliminated.

The Lock 'N Load series games have full and half strength status….so I use two vehicles or two stands of infantry for each unit. When it takes a hit, I remove on stand or vehicle….but the half strength stats have to also be on the play sheet.

As an old Panzerblitz player, one suggestion: have the trucks disappear after dumping their loads. Too many times I saw players use empty trucks to probe enemy positions and such. The modern version is the way Bolt Action players use forward observers and medics to make suicide charges.

Once upon a time playing Panzer Blitz with miniatures was not unusual. Used to see such games in the old wargames magazines from time to time back in the 70s and early 80s.

That's true, I do remember reading articles on such things. For that matter, I transitioned from boardgames to miniatures using AH's MBT boardgame, GeoHex Battlescape and GHQ micro armor. Ah, those were the days.

I always liked playing using the rules from Arab/Israeli Wars. It changed the way troops defended in terrain. I liked the changes for infantry defending in towns the best: The unit stays classed as infantry for any attacks against it, add +5 to it's defense value and a modifier on the CRT in the defenders favor. It makes digging infantry out a whole lot tougher and makes units with a big "H" value very important.

Problem with PB/PL is that they don't provide for reaction fire so that units could cross dozens of open ground hexes right in front of their enemies and the opponent couldn't open fire on them whilst doing so.

I found this list for 3mm minis rules:

link

There is opportunity fire in Panzer Leader, so that set of rules is a big step up compared to PanzerBlitz

If you've ever played OGRE, it's basically a souped-up Panzer Blitz. If you can find a copy of the minis rules, that would be a good starting point for your own conversion.

I would suggest using a mat by HOTZ Mats. I use it when adapting Mark Walkers World at War board game here is a photo of my micro armor and mat. I went with the three inch hexes, as it allows you to put in more than one unit in a hex.
link

Yes, a grid makes it much easier to play. If measuring you need to use base sizes half or one third the area of a hex for pb or the stacking is wrong relative to terrain density.

I prefer the more free flowing movement of PB, terrain, obstacles and mutual fire support seemed to deal with lack of opp fire. The move point counting system in PL was just awful!

If you can find it use the "Blood and Thunder" game from GDW instead of Panzerblitz. The combat system is a better simulation while still being simple. Command and Control is built in as well, some of the scenarios have terrible balance problems though.

A problem with using a grid for me is I use 15mm troops, making the hexes too large to get many on a 4x6 foot table. I have Hotz 3 and 4 inch hex mats, was thinking of them for a larger scale game where a stand=a battalion, like Megablitz/KISS Rommel. I agree about the hexes being easier for movement and range, eliminates a lot of fiddling. Have OGRE around here somewhere, I think someone did a WW2 conversion. Will look out for Blood and Thunder. Thanks for all the suggestions!

If you are using 15s you should be OK as the elements are going to be quite large. If you use 1"=100m, then you should be able to 'stack' four tanks in a 250m 'hex' by grouping them together. People may complain about them being bumper-bumper of course:)

I used to play PL with minis with 6mm, which rather distorted the ground scale if you didn't use a grid or introduce some sort of awful proximity based stacking limit.

Main thing I'd fix for both PL and PB is the treatment of indirect fire where bunching up reduces artillery effectiveness. I used to half IF fire factors than apply them to each and every unit in the hex.

Which scenario were you looking at running? There were some great ones in both PL and PB. I was very fond of the long ones played with the board end-end.

The scenario is a 1940 adaptation, Situation 42, Dinant: Rommel Meuse River Assault. Boards C + D upside down. Germans enter at the narrow end w/three bridges with a lot of armor and about a battalion of infantry. French all over the place, lots of infantry and a little armor left from a cavalry division. Laid it out on my table and it all fit well and looked pretty good. 6 towns Germans get a marginal victory for controlling 4.

Right, the 1940 expansion had some really interesting scenarios. I can't recall playing that one though.

I'm not sure how active they are now, but a search for "Panzerblitz" turned up a fair number of hits at "www.groups.yahoo.com". You might also check the comments related to PB, PL and AIW at boardgamegeek.com. This topic is bound to have come up in the past.
The biggest decision, IMO, could be: do you use hexes large enough to allow stacking as per the original games, or do you go with smaller hexes and allow only one unit per hex (vehicles & guns would obviously be allowed in the same hex)?

There was an article in a old "General" magazine back in 1973 where a man used GHQ micro armor. He made a coffee table that had a glass top that covered and protected the board from wear and it had drawers to store the pieces. Its been a while, but I can't remember if he solved the issue of stacking pieces.