"BGPG “Stirring the Pot” Optional Rules " Topic

Battlegroup Panzergrenadier is a great rules set for 15mm scenario based games and I've had a lot of fun with it over the past year. Still, during repeated game play with a wargaming buddy, a few things jumped out that wanted tweaking. There is no perfect set of rules and anyone who knows me understands I've never been shy about adding variant or optional rules to any game. After assembling a number of tweaks into a two-page handy reference sheet for game use, I was amazed at how little was changed in the rules but what a difference they made to game play. Nothing in the original game mechanic was changed, just additional tweaks. It came to me that they would work well as an optional "add-on" to anyone playing the game. Therefore, I named them the "Stirring The Pot" Optional Rules, assembled them into a file, and posted it on the BGPG Boardgamegeek page (Files Area) for players to download and consider.

link

What are the main additions that the "Stirring The Pot" Optional Rules offer?
- Game play closer to 1:1 since one AFV, artillery, AT gun, and mortar = one model or stand. And one infantry stand = one squad, weapons team, tripod MG, command, HQ, observer, or sniper.
- LMGs and squad AT special weapons are discrete attachments (with individual stands if desired).
- A Terrain Table takes all the guesswork out of the relationship between the Movement, LOS, and Cover effects for each type of terrain.
- Replaced Built Up Areas with individual buildings.
- Suppressed units are now harder to hit.
- Infantry units can now take damage which makes them weaker and more vulnerable.
- AFV strength is reduced in close assaults.
- Area Fire and Smoke for larger caliber guns (artillery and AFV main guns) when Direct Fired.
- Possibility of damage to the winner of a close assault.

If you find any of these ideas interesting to try in your BGPG games, please check out the file for the details. Many of these optional rules were used in the Detailed Example of Play AAR session reports for the "Across The Pronia" scenario also posted on Boardgamegeek. Hope you enjoy some of these optional rules, or at least some of the ideas and assessment that went into their generation.

Thanks – Gary

Thanks. I've just ordered the rules so can't comment on your modifications as yet. To me, it's a good thing to be able have room for a few rule tweaks and not 'break' the system.

Any tips for a BGPG newbie?

I have never played these rules, only heard about them, and expect they are similar in game scale as FoW? Please correct me if not.

Aside from not knowing the rules, your suggestions sound very reasonable. I especially like the sound of;
- Suppressd units are harder to hit (I take it you mean that they are harder to hit to KILL< but stil las easy to pour on suppressive fire?)
- Infantry couldn't take damage before?
- AFV assault srength reduced, I take it thsi ias against infantry only?
- Damage to the winner in close assault – This sounds great. It really means that an attacker has to weigh up if they win a combat, but are likely to be in a possition to too weak to keep going.

Can you give me an idea of the strengths (and maybe the weaknesses) of this system? Apart fro mthe over view on the BGG page there's not much to really relay the system's working to a new person, like me :)

Thanks,

Ark3n

To Bandolier
Any tips for a BGPG newbie?

The biggest (and most exciting) thing I found in my first game was that recon is critical if you are attacking a completely hidden enemy defender of unknown strength and capability. Check out the previous articles I posted in this rules forum "The Skinny on Battlegroup Panzergrenadier", and "BGPG – Detailed Example Of Play AAR (Photos)." The AAR gives a feel for that. – Gary

To Ark3nubis
- I have never played these rules, only heard about them, and expect they are similar in game scale as FoW? Please correct me if not.

Yes, same level as FOW (reinforced company). I bought BGPG after finding the FOW rules system was not for me (rock/paper/scissors, tournament based, no Op Fire). With BGPG base size is not critical and individual figures on a stand are not tracked for casualties so the number per stand is not important. My FOW stuff works as is.

-Suppressed units are harder to hit (I take it you mean that they are harder to hit to KILL< but still as easy to pour on suppressive fire?)

Suppressed units are are harder to hit now, but if hit then have the same chance for a retreat, abandon position, or dispersed (KIA) result.

- Infantry couldn't take damage before?

A squad could be suppressed or dispersed with no intermediate step. Now if squads retreat due to fire effect they take a damage marker with -1 DRM when firing and are dispersed if they get a second marker.

- AFV assault strength reduced, I take it this is against infantry only?

Yes, the change is only for overruns/close assaults vs infantry. Direct fire is unchanged.

- Damage to the winner in close assault – This sounds great. It really means that an attacker has to weigh up if they win a combat, but are likely to be in a position to too weak to keep going.

Yeah, it requires that second level evaluation. 1) Will I win? 2) At what cost?

Can you give me an idea of the strengths (and maybe the weaknesses) of this system? Apart from the over view on the BGG page there's not much to really relay the system's working to a new person, like me :)

Strengths and weaknesses are so individual the best I can suggest is for you to check out the previous articles I posted in this rules forum "The Skinny on Battlegroup Panzergrenadier", and "BGPG – Detailed Example Of Play AAR (Photos)." Particularly the AAR reading should give you a feel for the way the game system works. – Gary

Good man Gary, thanks for the responses! I have several FoW panzer grenadier platoons with support and have been building to sell them on eBay. I loved the minis (different to always having 28mm) but just immediately didn't like FoW also. Apart from basing them on UK 5p coins individually and using them as 28mm I never found a use for them. This game sounds and looks promising, I'll have a look at the links you've given, cheers!

So many games, so so little time…

Ark

Sorry, but I've just got to disagree with you slightly there. BGPzG isn't a 1:1 company-level game like FoW.

Instead, each vehicle/gun model represents 2-3 actual vehicles/guns and each troop stand represents a squad, a leader or 2-3 heavy weapons. As the title would suggest, it's geared towards a battalion-sized battlegroup of 2-5 companies per side. The nearest equivalent is Fire & Fury's 'Battlefront: WW2'.

That notwithstanding, you've definitely got some food for thought there for BGPzG players and I've highlighted this thread to Dave Brown, the author, who is presently working on a new edition of BGPzG.

To Mark Davies
Sorry, but I've just got to disagree with you slightly there. BGPzG isn't a 1:1 company-level game like FoW.
Instead, each vehicle/gun model represents 2-3 actual vehicles/guns and each troop stand represents a squad, a leader or 2-3 heavy weapons. As the title would suggest, it's geared towards a battalion-sized battlegroup of 2-5 companies per side.

Yes I agree with you totally for original BGPG and it plays very well at that level if that is what you are looking for. But I've always liked tweaking! If you choose to add the "Stirring The Pot Optional Rules" BGPG plays closer to 1:1 since one AFV, artillery, AT gun, and mortar = one model or stand. It is still not 1:1 because one infantry stand = one squad, weapons team, tripod MG, command, HQ, observer, or sniper and individual figures are not represented.

My calling BGPG a "reinforced company level game" was kind of unclear. Each basic "unit" of infantry is a squad (1 stand or some individual figures). So it is above(?) skirmish with 1:1 individual figure representation, and below(?) larger scale games where the base infantry "unit" is a platoon or company.
The games we play are at the smaller end of the BGPG scenario scale. Our Battlegroups have an OOB of usually a company of infantry, heavily reinforced with platoons of heavy weapons and armour which would be the equivalent of an additional light company, perhaps adding up to a light battalion in total for each side. The "Across The Pronia" scenario I posted the detailed AAR for on TMP and the Geek Forum (links below) is about the biggest we would play on a 4x6 table.

TMP link

link

Gary

Where can I buy this in the USA?

On Military Matters in the US stock them.

link

link

DB