"15mm wargame rules... which do i choose.??" Topic

Hi. I have got 2 15mm Late Persian Achaemenid box set army from Magister and Xyston. Im looking for a rule system that is fun.. Iv been told about DBA but also that it is biased to certain armys that will always win due to the army lists. Is this acurate ??. I have also been told about Fields of Glory but i have been told it is very complex. I need to find a rule set before i can paint and base my miniatures because they all seem to have different rules for basing. And without being a complete cheapskate… the price of the rules is also a factor..

You may try Basic Impetus.

It's free. You can download the rules from the publisher's website
dadiepiombo.com/basic2.html

Iv been told about DBA but also that it is biased to certain armys that will always win due to the army lists. Is this acurate ??

Broadly, no …

I have also been told about Fields of Glory but i have been told it is very complex.

Compared to many, it is …

I need to find a rule set before i can paint and base my miniatures because they all seem to have different rules for basing.

No … nearly all will work well enough with standard WRG inspired basing (DBA, Armati, FoG, Impetus, AMW, Hail Caesar, Warlord … etc. all work fine on 40mm frontages) ..

If you intend playing 'away' (not providing both sides, going to events etc.) it is best to find out what other people are doing and fit in …

If you will be providing both sides and hosting the game, you should do what you like. For speed I like DBA; for ease I like AMW (Neil Thomas); for accuracy (historical battle) I like Armati; for compatibility (size of player community) I still like FoG although it does take too long to get a result.

Hope that helps

Phil
Ancients on the Move

all rules sets are biased to some armies and not others.

it is absolutely not a reason to not play them, it just depends on which armies you use.

late persians, presumably vs macedonians. you could do a lot worse than DBA, and it is easily the lesat complex set you will find.

DBA is just fine. I use it for big battle games and for giant games, often historical, and its mechanisms work very well. If you plan to fight in 12-element DBA tournaments then perhaps some armies are unbalanced … I don't know because I don't play tourneys. But if it's fun you're looking for then these rules are grand.

I like Basic Impetus, free from the D&P site:

dadiepiombo.com/basic2.html

It uses a basing scheme that is, for the most part, DBx "squared", but most of the time, I just use it like DBA. When in doubt, use the DBx scheme; most everything else these days "allows" for it if your opponent uses it too (and he probably does). That's just my $0.02 USD.

The link above is a helpful overview, download it, and see what you think. You can't beat the price!

I use it with a few whistles & bells from ("Advanced") Impetus, but I prefer the simplicity of BI more.

Rules are generally not size specific. For example, Hail Caesar can be played with 6mm, 15mm, 25/28mm, 40mm etc. etc.

Actually HC is quite a good recommendation for a fun game.

You might be approaching this from the wrong angle. All of the rules you mention tend to have very different army sizes (i.e. number of figures to purchase, paint, and base).

DBA uses 12 bases (elements, in DBA-speak) for a standard army. You can play Big Battle DBA, which is three such armies per side, or Giant DBA, which is any number of elements per side. Those Xyston boxed sets basically contain the DBA army, and most, if not all, of the options allowed for that army (i.e. it may well contain more than 12 stands as DBA army lists have mandatory units and optional units).

AMW by Neil Thomas is a good book and set of rules, but is getting harder to find. It uses four stands per unit, eight units per army (if I recall correctly, which I may not), with no provisions (by the author) for using larger armies or smaller units. To use these rules you will need to probably purchase at least one other box for each side, plus some blisters to fill out the units.

THW's Rally Round the King is an interesting choice to. Pretty flexible in unit sizes and number of units on the table. I have played them with straight DBA-sized armies (12 stands) without any problem. THW has some (free!) army lists, but they are not as comprehensive as the other ancients rules. If you like the THW reaction system, you should like these.

FoG basically has huge armies, in comparison to DBA. You will need many multiples of those boxes – probably four at a minimum – to get a FoG "normal-sized" starter army going. DBMM is similar in scale, and number of figures required. There are provisions for playing smaller games, with fewer figures, with both of these rules. Somewhere are slightly larger than DBA-sized armies, so expect at least two of those boxes for each army as a starter.

I haven't played Impetus – I was always put off by the non-intuitive acronyms – but my understanding is that it is eight units, but the bases tend to be larger (and more dioramic) so a DBA army box should be just right for Impetus.

Once you decided the size of each army that you want to collect, paint, and base, and as Phil said, whether you are going to provide both sides or not, then you can start looking at which rules suit the collection you are looking to build. If you want to go with those two boxes and be able to start gaming, FoG and DBMM are pretty much out. There are some single-stand unit variants of AMW, but again that book is sometimes hard to obtain. Basic Impetus works too.

If you want to go with large armies, that when it makes more sense to choose FoG or DBMM.

Shaun's Wargaming with Miniatures blog reviews a lot of ancients rules, then does a battle report highlighting the rules and mechanics. He often does the same battle over and over, with different rules, which really helps you contrast them. This blog is highly recommended for people searching for ancients rules.

Dale

Mighty Armies Ancients by Rebel Minis rebelminis.com/miaranhco.html
It's very similar to DBA but a bit less fiddly.

Rally Round The King by Two Hour Wargames works as well. link It's great for solo wargaming because of the innovative Chain Reaction system it uses. It does take some getting used to at first but once you get into play it starts making sense. You can get by just using the one book but there is an Army book that has tons of options.

As others have said, stick with DBx basing and that will give you the flexibility to try pretty much any other rules set. I'd recommend getting some painting done and an army built up for a start and from there try out a few sets and see what you like.

If you are playing at a club, it's probably best to ask what they play and collect for that. If you are starting from scratch, perhaps wanting to get things on the go and maybe get some mates involved later on, you'll want to get an opposed army as well.

I started off the same way you did: bought a pack (well, two opposed ones actually) from Magister Militum, and seven years later have not looked back.

You probably won't find a really good set of rules until you know what you like, and that may take a while. So in the meantime make good use of this place – look at battle reports, rules reviews and figure photos to build up your knowledge, and join plenty of yahoo groups dedicated to various rules sets. Even if you don't buy the rules, it will help you to build awareness of what's around and what different rules focus on.

Good luck, and enjoy. You may not ever truly reach your destination (it will keep getting farther away to as you go along!), but you'll have a lot of fun on the way :)

And without being a complete cheapskate… the price of the rules is also a factor..

That's not being cheap. That's being sensible!

I wrote a free set. Ancients D6. Lots of army lists and so forth. Pretty easy game to play.

link

I'll second Mighty Armies Ancients, DBA, Armati, Ancient Wargaming, and Basic Impetus. All are fine and fun games. Armati is probably the most complicated (moderate) out of the bunch.

As said, DBMM scales down quite well in 100AP and 200AP versions.
To have an idea about the armies size, you can have a look here for DBMM100
link

and here for DBMM 200
tagmata.it/dbmm_200.htm

This link shows some battle reports of DBMM100 games, just to have a rough idea of table size and miniatures used
link

Lorenzo

tagmata.it

My ancients game of choice is FOG, but it is relatively complex, and if your main criteria is fun, then FOG probably isn't for you (well not yet, anyway). The best thing to do is get them painted and based on DBX / FOG bases (40mm frontage, depths vary by troop type, for example 20mm deep for archers, medium foot, foot skirmishers, 30mm deep for mounted). Skirmishers should be two to a base, cavalry and most other foot three to a base.
Based in that way you'll be able to play any of the big battle type ancients games that are largely played in 15mm. DBA and Basic Impetus would both be a good starting point.
Try to get along to a club or a local group and try out some games.

We use warmaster ancients and hail caesar . Both thoroughly recomended .

Standard DBA base sizes can probably be utilized for 99% of the rules sets out there.

I second Dale Shauns blog is a great resource. RRTK is a good system. The previous version Warrior Kings is still available from the Yahoo Group thanks to John Kelly.

link

Masses of Army Lists are included and it uses the nearly standard 40mm bases. Though the Persian list suggests more units than you have ( I'm basing this on the Xyston army I couldn't find the numbers for the Magister army pack ) just use what you have. Shouldn't be any Hard and Fast rules about Lists when you're starting up.

Anyway enjoy yourself but I would have a look at Shauns blog it is a gem

Cheers K.B

RRTK is a good system

Yep! Forgot about that one. RRtK is a great system, especially for solo play.

Might of Arms is fun, easy to learn, and very well written

If you look over battle reports and reviews and still cannot decide on a set of rules, I would try DBA first. Version 2.2 is the current released version. While I have tried out dozens of rules over the last few years and have my own preferences, it is a tried and true system, has loads of support and is loved by lots of people. It is not an expensive ruleset to acquire and only needs a few figures (about 60 a side) to play.

Of course nothing is simple and a new version (3.0) is to be released soon (you can insert your own definition of soon here).

If you don't like DBA much, and you would not be alone, there are other excellent alternatives as suggested above.

Shaun and I worked to try to not overlap efforts. More reviews on my blog as well. All (or most) different rule sets from Shaun's. So yet more information to parse!

link

Tactica has always been my favorite ancients rule set.
Basing is compatible with WRG and the armies are nice and big.

well thank you everyone for you help and advice.. I have decided to buy DBA 2.2 to start with. i have also worked out that with the 2 boxed sets and a few others random figures that i have bought i will be able to host both sides of a battle. until my friends decide on what Greeks they want. thank you again. i hope to start painting these soon

does anybody know if DBA 2.2 is available in pdf format ? or if i can buy a digital version. seems to be out of prit at the moment till 3 is finished .

See this recent TMP thread (DBA 2.2 back in print on Lulu.com)

TMP link

Take a look at basic impetus. It's free!
Also, dba1.0 is free at wrg.me.uk
Go to history.
Lots of free rules there.
also Shaun Travers has a really fun set called ancient battlelines clash. Look at his blog.
happy hunting!

thanks everyone. Iv managed to order the new DBA 2.2. But ive also been given a set of rules called Armati.. nobody has mentioned these ones.. is there a reason ? I havent had a chance to read them yet but i would be interested in others views.

Take a look at armati.
Lots of people LOVE IT.
There are tons of people who play, you can find game reports everywhere, and there is an active Yahoo group.

The games that we mentioned are mostly fast play rules, or rules that are worded in way that is easier to learn.
Mostly.

Armati can be a little thick, but it is still fun.
good luck
thanks

Armati is a great game (actually my favourite). It used a few more figures that you mention so that is why it has not come up. If you want to expand on the figures you have, there are loads more rules out there.

Note that Armati is a relatively simple game to learn (relative to other similar rules) but it is not an easy game to play; it reminds some people of chess.

Shaun has armati down pat.

It takes some more little men than you have. But it is great fun.

Stick with dbx for now, and enjoy the models and the small games.

Then if you decide you like mini wargaming, expand. Give armature a run.

As Shaun said, try DBA first.
Basic Impetus is free & popular so give it a try.
DBMM & FOG are both major undertakings. I have played both a lot & I enjoy DBMM much more.

For Dark Age games try Osprey's new Dux Bellorum. It is a blast.

Finally, Warmaster Ancients is easy & a lot of fun.
I haven't tried Hail Caesar, but his other rules (Black Powder) are very good so Hail Caesar must be a winner, albeit an expensive one.

Whatever you do, mount your armies to the DBx standard. The only real mistake you could make is to use a different basing system.

I like the Warmaster Ancients rules for the above reasons. Three stand units are nice and the same size as DBA stands, 40x20mm. A plus for me is that the the armies fit into Warmaster Fantasy with little effort, giving more bang for the buck. The fantasy rules are free at Games Workshops website.

My advice, after playing almost every set out there, is Impetvs. The Basic Impetvs rules are a FREE download, and are very fun. Armies are more interesting than the DBA ones (DBA armies are fixed at 12 stands;Basic Impetvs are more varied in size – still small of course). Easy to learn amd get into right away. In addition, and this is a BIG one, it is very easy to go all the way, after trying the rules, with the FULL version of Impetvs.

You might want to look it up on YouTube as well. I am currently posting vids on Impetvs. :)