"Thinking of starting a Falklands Naval project" Topic

Hi all!

I've always been interested in the Falklands war and for the last while I've been doing an air war project. I'm now thinking of expanding it to cover naval operations (probably with a fair amount of "what if" scenarios given the unequal numbers of ships involved). This should combine quite nicely with the aerial forces I've already amassed.

Now I'm a complete newcomer to naval gaming so I'm looking for a few pointers.

1. Ships

I'm currently looking at using either Skytrex/Davco 1/3000 range or SeaWulf 1/2400. Does anyone have any opinions on these 2 ranges? Roughly how large would the typical ships be for both scales?

Both seem fairly comprehensive but the big difference seems to be cost – I could probably do most of the British Task force for less than 100 quid with Skytrex. The only downside is that they don't seem to do some of the more famous vessels involved such as Atlantic Conveyor or HMS Conqueror.

2. Rules

I'm looking for a rule set that is fairly easy to pick up and quick to play. I've seen some recommendations for Shipwreck but I'm open to suggestions.

3. Forces

Can anyone recommend a good "starter force" for the British in terms of key ships that I should pick up first? The Argentinian force isn't really a concern as it was relatively small I'm thinking of doing it 1:1.

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated!

I prefer 1/2400 but if you go 1/3000 I suggest you use Navwar link instead of Davco. More models and, in my opinion, better models, less money.

Rules… I suppose Shipwreck, simple but do join the yahoo group

You could leave the British carriers until later as they can be "off stage". 3 Sheffields is probably all you need at one spot, ditto Amazons but if you get Navwar use the Alacrity pack as the Amazon is Amazon, no Exocet launchers.

So 2 packs of Sheffield, 2 of Alacrity, and 1 each of Leander, Antrim, Broadsword, Rothesay will give you as many at any one point during the war I believe. Not all that were in theatre understand, but deployed in action together.

Oh yes, some of the British merchant ships are in the modern warship list but some of them are in the 1/3000 merchant list link so do check both places

I also like the Denian models but they are hard to get. In fact it's been so long I don't know if they are still available nor do I have contact information. It's all snail mail in this day and age.

Just one question??

would not the war be better done with an air combat game with ships as targets and AA weapons platforms added in?

I don't seem to remember any ship to ship combat taking place.

I prefer 1/2400th as well, since its surprising how much bigger the vessels are, and there's a great selection now available from various manufacturers.

1/3000th, or even 1/6000th is more affordable though.

I'd use Shipwreck for the naval rules, though you could use Harpoon too, due to the small number of vessels and aircraft generally in combat at one time. SW is faster, and easier though.

The Falklands supplement for Harpoon is highly recommended, if it is still in print, for either rules set. Lots of good scenarios available there, and Vandering Publications has a number of simple ones as well, for the war.

For the air component, I'd recommend merging Clash of Sabres with SW, since its really good for that, and since its quickplaying also, it's a good fit, for small unit actions.

I have unofficial aircraft stats for the Falklands, and Iran-Iraq Wars, that aren't available elsewhere, unless you go to the trouble to research them on your own.

Since you're in the UK, probably best to get the Clash rules from Geoff, at QRF. If you send me an e-mail, I'll send you some of the special aircraft stats and rules I've come up with.

I have them available here, if anyone in the USA wants them.

e-mail:

calidreamer3 AT hotmail (dot{ com

for a copy.

Models – either would be OK. many of the merchies will have to be converted, but I recall QRF having a project to do them all.

Rules – I'ce campaigned his twice, once using the old Skytrex/Dodo rules which were reprinted (by Navwar?) in the 1990s, and once using a heavily modified version of General Quarters. I dumped all of my campaign notes and maps and the rules in a zip file which I put on the Naval Wargames Society website and which you can find here:

link

I also ran a "monster" game for the Naval Wargames Society with 30+ players based on the approach to the islands and the initial landings (this followed on from a more modest series of games played at the NWS group in Wiltshire, and used the outcomes from those games as the starting point, so Belgrano not sunk, 25 de Mayo damaged but operational, Antrim damaged etc.) and, in true wargamer style, a more aggressive stance being taken by all concerned. Notable for the Argentineans keeping track of where the advanced elements of the RN force were by how quickly they lost contact with their line of patrol ships (the infamous flaming datums), the heroic A4 strike on the RN's woefully exposed carriers which amazingly ended up with only one ineffective bomb hitting Invincible and not going off, and the ARA Canberra air strike on the hospital ship convoy – mounted because the player driving the Canberras, having seen what Sea Dart did to one of his earlier missions, wanted to attack something that couldn't shoot back!!!

In one of the Harpoon annuals there was a two day scenario covering the landings at San Carlos. Basically, the British coordinated the naval vessels and Harrier CAP while the Argentines attacked at staggered times. There was never any chance of an all out naval action in the war, so this seems to be the best way to handle the action.

Ran an attack on the landing area a few years back, using Clash and Shipwreck.

Great fun, especially due to the dud bomb house rule. Pilots had to roll first, to see if they were on target with their bombs – roll a D20 for each one dropped from very low level. Used the Shipwreck % values for low level bomb attacks from A/C, if I recall correctly

Then, roll again, for duds, since only about 20% went off, historically. Note, duds that hit some areas can still damage them, or cause catastrophic, sympathetic explosions.

Also note – avoid the Muerta Negra Sea Harriers, when at all possible. Those guys are good.

Of course, they have to stand off from the ships, to avoid fratricide from the SAMs and light guns.

You may also want to check out the old Harpoon supplement "South Atlantic War" ( link ) . It has 25 or so scenarios that cover air, sea, and land engagements, as well as maps and whatnot. Even if you aren't using Harpoon, it might be a good resource.

I recall QRF having a project to do them all</Q>

The SeaWulf range came out of Chas' desire to game the naval battles of the Falklands, hence the large merchant navy and RFA ranges:

link
link

Yep, between those and some from GHQ and CinC, if I recall correctly, you should be pretty well set in 1/2400th scale.

Unless I'm missing something there is no model of "The Great White Whale", the Canberra, in 1:2400, and the Europic Ferry in either scale… so whatever you choose you are faced with some scratchbuilding. Fortunately that is not too difficult in micro scale.

"Lombardo's Fork" is a "what if" that only requires the supposition of a bit more wind over 25 de Mayo's deck to tip it over from reality, and San Carlos is a real scenario that is finely balanced:

hksw.org/Bomb%20Alley.htm

Cheers,
Bertie

Wow thanks for all the responses! Lots of very useful information. Thought I'd respond to a few individual posts below.

dragon6 – Thanks very much for suggesting Navwar, I'd seen this range mentioned before but hadn't considered them.

Ouzel von Schwartzwolfe – I'd imagine that the majority of scenarios will focus on air to ship action but I'm also looking to run some "what if" scenarios based around potential naval engagements and undoubtedly, the project will spiral into a full blown collection of various modern naval forces as most of these small projects tend to….

Mako11 – Thanks for suggesting Harpoon, I'm going to try and pick up a copy from the net as well as a copy of the Falklands supplement and will get a set of the Clash rules when myself or a friend next orders from QRF.

David Manley – The campaign notes and report were very useful – thank you very much!

As things stand, I'm leaning towards doing the project in 1/3000 scale after seeing both the fairly comprehensive range available from Navwar and given the lower cost involved. At their prices, I could probably assemble the British task force 1:1 without breaking the bank.

I tried faxing an order over to them today for a couple of fleet packs just to see if I like the models but it doesn't seem that their fax machine is working. Anyone ordered from them recently?

Rules wise, I think I'm going to pick up copies of both Shipwreck and Harpoon and see which I prefer.

I use snail mail to Navwar, just like Heroics and Ros.
You don't get the instant gratification of a computer shopping cart, but then you have more time to carefully consider your choices,( I know… "carefully consider" is an oxymoron for wargamers, read "needs" rather than "wants" and "choices") but, in the final analysis, their turn around time is good and the toys drop into your letter box in about the same time as other manufacturers who have more computer friendly shopping.
I suppose that this system keeps down their overall costs which translates into their competative pricing… so, "you pays your money and makes your choice."
Cheers,
Bertie

Actually the best system for modelling the air war in the Falklands is the Downtown/Elusive Victory system, which someone started working on a while ago.

Shipwreck is very playable. Harpoon is essentially not playable if you have any kind of a life at all.

link

No matter which set you choose, get the "South Atlantic War" supplement for Harpoon, since it has a lot of great info that would cost you a lot more, if you purchased the info from various sources.

Yes, the Downtown system would work, but Clash is more tactical, if you enjoy actually flying the jets against other opponents.

I think Downtown's system would be good for keeping track of the operational movement of the jets, and for playing out those battles that you don't want, or don't have the time to play man to man.

Not sure if you are looking for aircraft yet, but I just listed these on the Marketplace Board:

TMP link

A nice set of 1/700th scale Argentinian aircraft, which match up perfectly with the same scale modern plastic vessel kits being sold today, by various manufacturers.

These are now out of production, save for the suggested Sea Harriers and Harriers, so if you want them, now's the time to act.

Downtown takes you up a level to flights – so it makes it possible to play longer, more complex engagements. And it's particularly well suited to mixing air, ground, and naval elements in a single scenario.

Most of the Falklands engagements were about the Argentines trying to get in and get out without getting in a dogfight. That's not much fun for a plane vs plane game.

Somewhat true, but depends upon which side you are playing on, I suspect.

Plus there were a couple of encounters where the Mirages and/or Daggers had missiles.

Near the end of the war, I think they were considering changing their tactics again, but not sure they ever did send out fighter escorts for the bombers, and/or just plain fighter sweeps armed with AAMs.

Our club use Check Your 6 – Jet Age for our Falklands games. Obviously it leans to the air war side but its a great set of rules.