"Being Tolerant" Topic

There are many types of wargamers, none of them like us of course… some like to recreate history, some like to imagine new worlds, some want to win games, some want to paint beautiful miniatures, some want to 'get it right''. In between many like to play with the cool stuff of he past, present or future. Is it time we became more tolerant of each other?

James

Yes. I've already started.

It all depends on what you're asking me to be more tolerant about. For example, while I consider myself a tolerant gamer and I do get along well with most gamers of all stripes, I do have my limits.

One type of gamer I absolutely cannot tolerate personally are power gamers whose attitude is 'win at any cost.' They would bend and take advantage of loopholes in the rules or your ignorance of them to their own advantage. Because they do not embody what I consider to be the true and noble 'spirit' of our great hobby, I tend to stay away from them.

Of course, you may tolerate these gamers. But not me.

Definately!
Oh – and world peace too, ya reckon?

I've been overly tolerant. I don't give a rip what others do, I might not game with them, but to each their own.

Nothing a beer over minis and dice can't fix.

Can't we all just get along? nah

Is it time we became more tolerant of each other?

All those in serious Error have to do is admit they are wrong, and I can be as tolerant as anyone.

Ironic, you are asking people who simulate outbreaks of national intolerance to themselves be tolerant. I'll tolerate anyone who remembers we are playing games, less so of people who forget that simple fact.

Tolerant?

Heck no. This is war! (gaming)

No way!

One type of gamer I absolutely cannot tolerate personally are power gamers whose attitude is 'win at any cost.'

I hate the macho ones, who try to win by intimidating you. "I'm going to kick your *&@!" "I never lose, give up now!", those types. I tend to get very, very serious about beating this type, and it's usually pretty easy, as they are "all blow, no go" when it comes to playing the game.

I know what you mean really, I always want to whack the intolerant ones..

;)

James,

Presumption.

You point out the various reasons we all love the hobby, then tell us that we need to be tolerant without citing any examples that would warrant the need to start this thread in the first place.

So where does the presumption that we all are intolerant and warrant this chastisement come from exactly?

How about we just let people have their own fun without denigrating them?

Shoot all the intolerant ones.

I am very intolerant of intolerance.

Sparker,
I'd be in favor of world piece if it wouldn't cause such a worldwide unemployment problem.
BWW

I am very tolerant – heck, I even read some of the posts about zombies

I am all for tolerance. It is just that I can't stand pretty much everybody.

Generally it's your world, sometimes others get to visit it.

I guess the FOW discussions get at bit close to the mark, but we love them!…. I think its necessary to be able to express opinion but not to be offensive to thers who don!t necesarily agree. I expect most of us would get along fine if we had all our faculties at hand not just words on paper, or the virtual equivalent.

See now, you should state in the OP the observation that it is participants in THOSE discussions in particular you are taking exception to instead of casting such a wide general net.

With the flimsy, flexible, shifting definitions and mis-definitions that some people impose on cultural or political buzzwords like, "tolerate/tolerance," I try to get to the chase and want to see precision and specifics so I know what I'm hearing/dealing with.

Since I don't FOW or WWII game – does not apply to me so I'll just back off and sit over here quietly now instead…

this is a WW2 thread no… But chill, green tea, yoga….

link

For those who think I'm not being cleat

Cleat being something one attaches a line to.. I mean clear, but mr Apple does no understand me!

All is forgiven once they repent of their wargaming heresy.

All is forgiven once they repent of their wargaming heresy.

Or bring beer.

And it is a general issue, it's hard to participate in debate if it becomes incendiary … I guess some folks like that ….

Beer solves everything.

I try to get along with any group I'm in. But I don't always succeed.

I didn't realize there was a problem. You all must hang out with the wrong people.

Everyone calling for a beer as the solution has clearly forgotten the horrors of your opponent preferring the wrong type of beer!

If you want to get along with someone then just make sure they have an interest in the 18th C. before you talk. Everyone who's into the 18th C. are gentlemen and scholars.

Let's sing Kumbaya.

Dude!

A kind word and a knife get you more than just a kind word.I was once a super powergamer,i threw units away left right and centre,and had nevet lost.It might be fun for a while but you then realize your gaming group membership always remains in flux and small.Play nice,play fair,i dont give a damn if minis are painted or even primed just show up,snacks beer and good conversation are a sign a group likes to meet regularly.When you turn the focus on gaming and socializing tabletop diplomacy is in order and its the difference between real/cyber gaming…plenty of bmpk gamers in cyberia, .If however the tabletop group accidentally admits a powergamer everyone in group knows that with a flick of a switch,im the biggest baddest sophist gamer and the jerk will never be back from the gaming wedgy i inflicted.

Nah… outside Internet, most wargamers are very tolerant. It is in the world wide web where we allow ourselves being intolerant, as there are not physical consequences for our intolerance. In the real world, where you can be punched in the face if behave like a moron, we are usually very tolerant people.

Tolerance????

I won't be tolerant of someone who kicks of because their Mortar team gets mowed down by my MG because the player sent it ahead of the forward observer. He then accuses me of cheating and threatens to go home. Nah I'm not tolerant of that.

Plus I'm not tolerant of people who ruin games with stupidly, changing the rules and blatant cheating. If I've paid to attend club night I want a decent game, I don't care about winning.

And Beer doesn't sort all, Cider does :)

There are many types of wargamers, none of them like us of course

I don't understand the question…

We play for fun. Each person may have his/her own opinion of a good wargame. I am very tolerant towards players who have nearly/almost the same way of playing than myself.

I am also very tolerant of people who have a very different way of playing, IF they play another game on another table and not in my game.

No need to ruin each other's game and fun by forcing people to play together if they are not looking for the same fun. It's more interesting to play with people who like my gaming ; and have a "tolerant" look at the other table where other people play differently is interesting too.

De gustibus non est disputandum.

If its not fun do not pay it

Dear Archeopteryx

The problem isn't in gaming, it's in people. It's their personality traits that we find objectionable. We can be tolerant of a wide range of behaviours and much in a club or game environment can be done to gloss over it. All players have their foibles and quirks, and "That's just the way Sam (or Alf, or Art, or Otto) is and we can put it down to eccentricism and quirkyness. But there are quirks and traits that go over the line and that's the problem.

There are people who just have to "spit in the soup." No matter what the situation is they always have to complain and whine and spoil it for others. There's the guy who HAS to push the rules to the breaking point so as to show the other players "where they are weak" or he has to say something unpleasant about your latest paint job etc. I could go on, but I won't. Suffice it to say they provide just enough pain to take the savor out of every pleasure.

But Basileus 66 has hit the nail on the head. People are free under the guise of physical distance to be as vile to others as they wish. This is strange, because it's not too hard to find out who is who so the anonymity of the net is largely non-existant. One could for example track down a person at a convention and punch them in the nose.

But the problem then comes back to why do these things have to happen at all? What is to be gained by being gratuitously nasty to another gamer. Again that comes down to personality traits, a sort of "counting coup" and scoring points, when there really are no points to be scored. All you do is make an enemy out of a potential friend. But-- again-- that's human nature I suppose and as Milities said "Ironic, you are asking people who simulate outbreaks of national intolerance to themselves be tolerant." He has a point. I suppose if we didn't have a hankering for conflict we wouldn't be here.

I can understand his point. When I was younger I'll admit I was much more belligerant perhaps when it came to the "glee" of reproducing such intolerance in lead, but as I get older that has no allure whatsoever.

But at the same time, I have to observe that War Games is no different from any other hobby, Model Railroading, Road Rallies, Quilting, skiing clubs, swimming etc. There are all factions and people who make life difficult in these venues, there are just as many people there wo make sure to provide just enough pain to suck the sweetness out of every plesure.

We must always heed the plea for tolerance, but we may not always be able to grant it.

Tolerance, by itself, is not a positive or negative trait.

It's what you tolerate that's the important thing.

Well said.

Is it ok if I'm intolerant of FOW?

My status in gaming is so precarious I have to be tolerant in order to get a game.

I tend to pick and choose my opponents very carefully. At end of the day I want to enjoy the game whether I win or lose. A decent set of rules will will only meet you half way, the other is your opponent. I purposely avoid the types that just want to win at all costs because I know I aint going to have fun .

On saying this there is room in our hobby for all types of player and none should be excluded but this doesn't mean I have to play them:)

"I guess the FOW discussions get at bit close to the mark, but we love them!…. I think its necessary to be able to express opinion but not to be offensive to thers who don!t necesarily agree."

So would that tolerance extend to the "FoW Haters"? :)

Tolerance, ha.

"It is in vain, sir, to extentuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace --but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"

Oh….were we talking about wargaming? Then sure.

Quote from Patrick Henry 23 March 1775.

Everyone who's into the 18th C. are gentlemen and scholars.

You've obviously never visited the reenactors "rev.List" – the very fact that it spawned a splinter group called the "progressive" (etc) list should tell you all you need to know ;)