Help support TMP


"Ground Zero: Mali, insurgents vs the Malian army" Topic


12 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the Modern Media Message Board


Areas of Interest

Modern

Featured Hobby News Article


Featured Link


Top-Rated Ruleset

A Fistful of Kung Fu


Rating: gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star 


Featured Showcase Article


Featured Workbench Article

Round Bases, Round Labels

Using self-adhesive labels to identify your minis.


Featured Profile Article


Featured Book Review


1,517 hits since 2 Apr 2013
©1994-2026 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?


TMP logo

Membership

Please sign in to your membership account, or, if you are not yet a member, please sign up for your free membership account.
Rassilon02 Apr 2013 10:45 p.m. PST

For all you AK47 fans…

Great footage from Feb of the conflict

Part 1 of 2

youtu.be/5hQLrbfxeiQ

DowvoovooDaHunter03 Apr 2013 3:51 a.m. PST

WOW just a bit chaotic to say the least.

Tgunner03 Apr 2013 4:47 a.m. PST

Here's the second part. Be warned, it's pretty gruesome because the camera man is touring the aftermath. It ain't pretty…

link

As for the Mali Army… fighters yes, and reasonably brave ones too. But soldiers? 'Fraid not. I saw lots of spray 'n pray and wondering around. These boys just aren't trained! They need Basic training and AIT something bad. And the officers loudly arguing in the street… Yikes! Talk about calling attention to one's self! 20 years ago (activates old fogey mode) we would have said that"those dudes just aren't tactical!"

Sorry "mon Ames", but you boys have your work cut out in Mali if this is a typical Mali rifle company. They're game.. Just not TRAINED!

Major Mike03 Apr 2013 5:45 a.m. PST

A good report of the action by the reporter.

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP03 Apr 2013 7:57 a.m. PST

Yeah, have to agree Tgunner … like most "Armies" of the region, they are guys in some sort of uniform with loaded weapons …

Tgunner03 Apr 2013 8:09 a.m. PST

There is one point that I would argue: that this skirmish was a humiliation for the Mali Army. All things considered I think that the Mali fought as good of a fight that you can expect out of such a poorly trained force.

As far as I can tell from the video the Mali force only took one casuality: the silly major who was arguing, in the street, with a subordinate, IN THE STREET, while UNDER observation of the enemy. Sorry, but that was plain dumb and it doesn't fairly reflect on the Mali Army, just that poor twit of an officer.

In fact, I get the impression that the "officer" on-site, the reporter called him a corporal, had things under control. Yeah, his men were doping around and spraying fire everywhere, but he kept them under control, for the most part, and did what any decent officer should do: he clarified the situation and took direct action!

The opening minutes of the film showed him trying to establish the "contact" by locating and fixing the enemy. There was a lot of recon by fire but it got the job done because the French, in the second video, didn't have to do much recon. It looks like the Mali were able to get the French on target and the French wrapped things up. Heck, in war like this, just locating the enemy and fixing his positions is very tough and the Mali officer on the spot did that and he did it without visible casualties to his force.

He then organized his troops, as well as you can with such an irregular force, and launched a combined arms assault on the enemy position. I get the impression that, due to his irregular's lack of fire discipline, he wasn't able to establish fire superiority over the enemy, so a direct assault on the position would have caused excessive losses… plus his armor bugging out didn't help at all! Sheesh, what are those people? Armored FIGHTING Vehicle crews or glorified bus drivers????? Come on guys, you're making us mechanized troops look bad in front of a bunch of crunchies!!!

So really the commander on the spot really did a decent job and his troops did well too! They all seemed game to take it to the enemy and they appeared to willing to stay and fight it out. Granted they pulled back in the end but it wasn't a rout.

At the end of the day they simply didn't have the training to pull off an operation like this, at least not without taking excessive casualties. But what they did was some pretty decent soldering when you consider that they were undertrained/poorly trained troops.

So I disagree with the humiliation comment. But it does highlight the state of the Mali Army. If this is an average unit in that army then they have a LOT of training to do before they can be reasonably expected to face fanatical irregulars in the field.

darthfozzywig03 Apr 2013 9:32 a.m. PST

Nice assessment, TGunner.

The Mali army certainly isn't professional by Western standards, but I don't fault their enthusiasm. Fighting in cities (or just wandering around in a strange neighborhood) is a confusing mess, and a "handful of extremists" or anyone else can make any advance slow and costly. It looked like the Malians came off pretty good – they didn't break and run, they fixed the enemy in place, and they called for back-up before they incurred significant losses.

I don't even fault that armored vehicle crew for not making a frontal assault. Have those Islamists mined the building? How many RPGs do they have? How many armored vehicle crews were lost in the previous week? Context is important. :)

Thanks for posting this, Rassilon.

dmebust03 Apr 2013 12:28 p.m. PST

Just about every combination of uniform all tossed together and all on the same soldier, AK47 all the way!

Rassilon03 Apr 2013 5:51 p.m. PST

If you like this story, check out VICE's other documentaries, there are some interesting and well produced stories on their YouTube channel (mixed in with some not so good fluff).

They are also headed to HBO toward the end of this month (I believe) with their own 'hard' doc/news series.

Katzbalger04 Apr 2013 4:28 a.m. PST

Definitely shows the Malians have a ways to go with respect to training.

Equipment notes: interesting range of camo on the Malian troops--mix of just about anything (chocolate chip, woodland marpat, jungle tiger stripe, and some I didn't recognize). Always interesting to see pics of old Soviet equipment in action. Also, the boots on a couple of the dead jihadis looked basically new, which surprised me.

Rob

Tgunner04 Apr 2013 4:35 a.m. PST

That is interesting. There's another link on 4/4 about FFL troops in the desert in Mali beat feeting about and one of them trashed his boots. So he looted a pair of a dead AlQ fighter and he jokes about his jihad boots. Apparently the Islamists in Mali have a good boot supplier!

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP04 Apr 2013 6:40 a.m. PST

Brings new meaning to, " They died with their [new] boots on …"

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.