"Got hooked on AWI and now trying to figure out the formations" Topic

I recently picked up a box of the new Perry Brothers AWI British Infantry on an impulse buy. After assembling a couple of the models and reading quite a few posts here, I think I am hooked. Very cool period of time and lots of beautiful models.

For rules I now have British Grenadier and Black Powder. I plan on basing the individually with magnetized bases.

What I am trying to do now is figure out the regimental/battalion compositions. Example the Perry Brothers box comes with 6 figures on the command sprue. Two ensigns, a drummer, and 3 other figures (one is the commander). I see many folks base their figures with the officer, drummer, and two flag bearers. Is this typical? or could it be one flag, one officer, one drummer, and one subalt? would they have the same hat as the rest of the battalion?

I have three more boxes coming in and a box of woodland indians. I am trying to figure out how best maximize the use of the figures. This will give me 120 infantry figures and 16 command. I will probably have to order some more command stands as it seems most battalions/regiments range from 16-24 figures.

Any suggestions on how to start to put together these units would be great. I am coming from WW2 miniature wargaming at 15mm, so this era is very new to me.

Typically, one regiment = one battali0n for British. Very rare exceptions.
A typical regiment had on King's Colour, and one Regmental Colour.
All the Center companies wore the same hat. The drummer had a shorter bearskin than the grenadier one, however.

My organization, which is the minority, but still not rare, is to have 3 figures mounted on a 2" x 1" base.
This way, my rregiment comes in multiples of 3, but my rules also have single figure removal, so it is not all that unusual to have different numbers.

My typical command stand has t flags and one officer.
The drummer goes on the end of aother stand, so it can be pushed up against the command stand.

different hats would bwe worn by the light infantry company and the grenadier company.

Here is an old TMP thread I started a while back, on getting started.
Hope it's useful.

TMP link

John,

That thread is still very useful. Thanks for the link.

Matthew

Fwi, Warlord Games has an AWI in proof reading right now.

Very good reading John. With four boxes of the AWI British from Perry I should be able to make 6 infantry regiments and one light infantry with approximately 20-24 figures each. I like your idea of 5 different regiments with different facings.

Figure I will make the 33rd foot with Tricorn hats, 3 Regiments with cutoffs, and 3 (including the light) with the slouch hat. Will then need to pick up some grenadiers.

Are guards uniforms distinctly different at 28mm?

Will have to supplement the command figures with some metal figures from Perry or Fife & Drum.

This should keep me busy for quite some time and then I will need to plan and invest in a continental army.

Then the German and French next year.

I posted some thoughts on the Perry plastic set on my (still predominantly AWI) blog on Sunday:

gilesallison.blogspot.co.uk

If you scroll down right to the bottom of the first page, you will see lots of labels which may be of interest (all AWI unless otherwise stated – try the British infantry one).

The reality is that if you are building units at a figure/man ratio of 1:20, which is what British Grenadier largely follows, for example, then the Perry box set gives you more hatmen that you need and not enough command. As you say, for the British I've always had a command stand of 1 officer, 1 drummer and 2 ensigns, and that seems to be a standard norm. There's often a sergeant or corporal at the extreme right end of the battalion as well (the Perry command sprue gives you 2 sergeants). That means the hatmen in a typical British battalion will most often be between 12 and 16 figures. So the box gives you 2 regiments' worth of hatmen and so, as you say,you'll need to pick up a separate command sprue – unless you decide that your battalions aren't carrying their colours (which may well have been what happened in some cases), in which case you can use the ensigns as officers and then you're only 1 drummer less 2 full units. Don't forget that for all but a handful of British units a "regiment" is, for all intents a purposes, just one "battalion" – so you don't really need to worry about separate regimental and battalion commands or anything like that; just have your 1 officer (the exceptions are some highland and loyalist regiments, which recruited more than one battalion; and also some British Grenadier scenarios which drop the figure ratio down to 1:10 and 1:5 and divide a battalion into 2 or more "wings").

Personally I base British infantry in fours or sixes, to make movement easier, and Indians separately.

Giles

Gile's blog is one of the best out there. I visit often for ideas.

You will soon be able to get spare command sprues for £5.00 GBP (not sure what they'll cost Stateside). However, I think you will have 24 command figures, not 16, from your 4 boxes.

Also, bear in mind that some British regiments did not carry their colours into the field in the AWI, and the two ensigns in the Perry box have the option of being more subalterns if you wish, for this very reason.

Since I use a 1:10 ratio, one box equals one battalion.

Some of my regiments will carry their colours, just out of spite if nothing else.

Extra figures are just that. Various and sundry uses.

My figures are single mounted on a penny/washer combination. I then use movement trays or keep them single mounted for skirmish games. The better to go Doodle bashing using the same figures with different rules.

My two shillings worth.

Eric

Great information and I have to say the AWI community seems to be a well informed and helpful group.

Each of the Perry plastic boxes only comes with one drummer. Based on my limited knowledge, I would assume each regiment would need a drummer or horn. Thus we would need to buy a few more drummers plus standard bearers as there are only two sets of arms for that. Although, you could create a regiment that did not carry their colours.

I do plan on using some of the extra figures on the command sprue as sergeants. They do seem to have the expression that they are yelling anyway :) Was it pretty typical for the sergeant to carry a fusil. Did any carry swords?

For the plastics, I found the best way to stick the tumbline on was to have the two tabs in toward the body and they fit well one way between the sack and cartridge box. Might have to flip to figure out which way is better.

I am going single based, so I can use them in multiple rule sets. Just need to work out the best way I want to create the movement trays. Will use the 20mm rendera bases with magnetic tape on the bottom. Probably have the movement tray made out of wood with magnetic tape or metal. Will have to look subtle though.

Thanks again for all your insight. This era is a nice change from painting splinter camo and olive drab, but not as intimidating as painting Napoleonics at 28mm.

Weland, if it would help, I have a word doc that lists all the British units that appear in the published British Grenadier! scenario books with their strengths for each scenario (together with uniform details and the same info for loyalists, cavalry and various other things). If that might help, send me your email address and I'll email it to you.

Militia Pete – thanks for the thumbs up!

Weland,

If you buy a box of metal figures, rather than a spare plastic command sprue, you can get TWO musicians and two ensigns (plus two officers) – packs AW53 and 56 for cut-down coats and slouch hats, or AW60 and 65 for the Saratoga uniforms.

And in my world…

My battalions are 30 figures. Three "units" of ten.

Each base gets a "command" figure. Maybe an Officer or a NCO with a musician right behind them. Or not. Sometimes it's nine rankers and one NCO. Mox nix.

The idea is I save the "command base" for the colours (if any), the Sar' Major, The Colonel (Himself), ad nauseum.

If you do what SM says and pick up a few metal mickies to sub in, that'll work. Just try to find the ones that work in the best for what you are making in plastics.

Either way, you can't go wrong. Best of luck.

Eric

SM that is exactly what I was thinking. The plastics allowed me to enter into the period at the right price. One box of plastics is enough to assemble let alone 4. I think I am going to prefer metal after all this is over.

I plan on buying metal to fill in the gaps, add specialty units such as the grenadiers and guards from F&D, and will probably be the nucleus of my continental army as there is no indication when they will be in plastic.

GiloUK – thanks for the offer will send you an email later tonight.

epturner – I like your idea on formations and will probably add in more NCOs and a junior officer for flavor.

Here's an army to paint up:

From Captain Muenchhausen' Diary (He was an ADC to Howe during the Philadelphia Campaign)

"A few days ago I had an opportunity to copy the following list of our embarked regiments and their strengths, including servants, laborers and washerwomen with each company.

ENGLISH
16th mounted regiment of light dragoons 300
English Guards 945
Light Infantry 1424
Grenadiers 1271
4th regiment (1st brigade) 352
23rd regiment (1st brigade) 416
28th regiment (1st brigade) 379
49th regiment (1st brigade) 400
5th regiment (2nd brigade) 400
10th regiment (2nd brigade) 300
27th regiment (2nd brigade) 333
40th regiment (2nd brigade) 320
55th regiment (2nd brigade) 274
15th regiment (3rd brigade) 378
17th regiment (3rd brigade) 233
42nd regiment (3rd brigade) 624
44th regiment (3rd brigade) 366
33rd regiment (4th brigade) 363
37th regiment (4th brigade) 362
46th regiment (4th brigade) 335
64th regiment (4th brigade) 446
71st regiment (5th brigade) 1218
Ferguson's Rifles (5th bde) 130
Queen's Rangers (unbrigaded) 278
Sappers 210

HESSIANS
GB von Linsing (von Donop's bde) 425
GB von Minnegerode (von Donop's bde) 446
GB von Lengerke (von Donop's bde) 420
Leib regt. (Stirn's bde) 710
regt von Donop (Stirn's bde) 624
regt von Mirbach (Stirn's bde) 705
"combined regiment" (von Loos' bde) 517
Hessian and Ansbach jaegers (von Loos) 594

Total including artillery and sappers 16,498"

(That gives around 1000 for the artillery).

And when you drill down a little bit more…

I would look at the campaign you are looking to do first, then worry about man to figure ratio.

The point is, it's a fun period. My Queen's Rangers were bought with an eye to running Crooked Billet (very much a local, little known action) and are around 1:4. But I knew that going in to the project.

Noodle around with it. See what you LIKE. Go from there. Rinse and repeat.

My movement trays are magnetic tape on basswood sheets.

Eric

My units are very small! 12-16 figures on 4 bases with 1 command base. Having only a single line gives a good impression of the British way of fighting.

"Having only a single line gives a good impression of the British way of fighting."

Why is that, as they fought in ranks of two?

If you have 15-24 figures in a battalion, and you double rank the figures, it looks like a platoon, and not a regiment. To me, at any rate.
To me, a "line" should be long and thin, and not bulked up.
It's all a matter of perception.
"Thin red line", and all that.

I guess all in the eye of the beholder. :-)

Very true about perception. Single ranked units look like skirmish lines to me. Unit depth and ground scale ratio is greatly distorted with double ranked figures but it just looks right to me. A lot depends on what one is used to seeing as 'normal' as well.

Also, I find it much easier collecting and organising forces with a set number of figures per unit, then adjusting the unit values to suit the scenario, than worrying about specific ratios.