"I'd like rules with...." Topic

Bases as squads… but could be played up as platoons. Or I could use individual based figs but they would act as a unit.
Simple rules for tank kills – just tell me if it's immobile/ can't use its main gun(s)/ is blown to smithereens or any combination of above… and let me keep the first two a mystery to my foe.
I can use grenade launchers.
Sometimes my boys don't do as I'd want them to.
Neither fire nor close combat die rolls have either hordes of dice nor long charts of modifiers of modifiers.
Surrender/capture is an option.
I can use the occasional aircraft and/ or preregistered fire mission.
There can be markers but not enough to be a visual distraction.
I can finish in 4 – 5 hrs… or less.
I can get a decent game in on a 5 x 5 foot table using 20mm figs.

Does this rule set exist?

Iron Ivan may work

Sounds like you need Nuts!

Except for the "bases as squads", I think Nuts has it covered. Download Chain Reaction Final Version, give it a read. If you can wrap your head around the reaction system (and find you like it), then open your wallet and kiss your cash good-bye.

CR can be found here: link

Battlefront WWII has almost everything you want. Surrender and capture rule does exist, but only if a unit is unable to retreat after losing a close combat.

link

Iabsm has all of them except that it uses lot of dice (usually one for every soldier alive in the squad) for close combat. It uses lot of dice fo penetration rolls, too.
I dont like rolling horders of dice, but as iabsm is mainly an infantry game, its ok for me.
You have a pool of dice for each squad that you use for everything; usually 3, it decreases with losses to the squad. So you can use 1 for moving, and two for firing, or 2 for firing and then one for firing.. Trying to spot cost one dice. I found it very intuitive.
Activation units is by random cards. Turn lenght is random too. Th turn ends when you draw the, well… The end of turn card ;-).
You have big men, nco and officers, to motivate the soldiers, rally them, activating units…movement is random, so you dont know how far you ll move.

Blitzkrieg Commander plays at 1 base:squad OR platoon, depending on what level you want.
Spearhead is 1 base:platoon.
And I think only skirmish games (1 platoon a side or less) would factor in rifle grenades. Otherwise they'd just be rolled in to the squad/platoon firepower.

Blitzkrieg commander. I have indeed played it with individual figures as sections, but you could do that with any element based set of rules really.

I like that kind of rules too. My weapon of choice is Fireball Forward. It have everything you have mentioned.

fireballforward.com

If you are looking for a simple and fun game then I suggest Rapid Fire. It fills all your requirements with the exception of "Sometimes my boys don't do as I'd want them to".

Crossfire has at least some of the original criteria you listed. For WW2 in lots of terrain, I really like it. You can find info on it here: crossfire.wargaming.info

Rob

try this list.
link

Another vote for Fireball Forward or IABSM. FF checks more of the boxes but both should work.

I'd use Battlegroup… But Im utterly biased.

All good suggestions so far, though Im not sure any match all the requirements stated.

Try 'em all and see what ye like!

Roger, I deeply respect your quest for what sounds like a quality gaming session. Those are not pie-in-the-sky hopes on your part, either…

Lets see:
Bases as squads… Or I could use individual based figs but they would act as a unit.
Iron Ivan excels at modelling the figures of a unit controlling an area or terrain feature. In fact the way infantry move and reinforce is one of the biggest strengths of Disposable Heroes.
Battlegroup Kursk (and soon enough Overlord, too) plays equally well with individual figures or stands of figures.

Simple rules for tank kills – just tell me if it's immobile/ can't use its main gun(s)/ is blown to smithereens or any combination of above… and let me keep the first two a mystery to my foe.
Disposable Heroes will give you some granularity to your vehicle hits, and the system is simple enough compared to some others. You certainly can keep the result of a hit secret from your opponent provided you both agree in advance this is what you are doing.
Battlgroup does not have the 'secret result' aspect as an option, but it is elegant. Vehicles will either survive a hit or get knocked out. Immobilisations and guns going out of action are less common but are an important feature of the game.

I can use grenade launchers.
Disposable Heroes features rifle grenade launchers.

Sometimes my boys don't do as I'd want them to.
Both Disposable Heroes and Battlgroup emphasise suppression of units. You will struggle to activate the units you want or need to. This aspect makes both of these games fun to play.

Neither fire nor close combat die rolls have either hordes of dice nor long charts of modifiers of modifiers.
Dude, you are going to roll dice. Probably as many as twelve to fifteen at a time. The rolls will be simple, single die rolls, looking for an easily determined target number. I'm talking about both games here. Battlgroup probably has slightly more dice rolling.
Neither Battlegroup or DH is chart intensive or complicated when compared to many other games.
Resolution of close assault is easier with Battlegroup than with Disposable Heroes.

Surrender/capture is an option.
Yes, for both games, but still uncommon event.

I can use the occasional aircraft and/ or preregistered fire mission.
Yes, again for both DH and Battlegroup. Both feature great approaches to handling artillery and the resolution of high explosive attacks.
Disposable Heroes is probably at its most complicated when it comes to resolving HE and artillery fire on buildings and defensive structures.

There can be markers but not enough to be a visual distraction.
Both games require you track activations, movement and pinning/suppression of units. In addition, you may have units out of ammo, immobile or with weapons KO'd. You will need to track that. If you want this level of detail, you have to monitor it somehow.

I can finish in 4 – 5 hrs… or less. I can get a decent game in on a 5 x 5 foot table using 20mm figs.
No question. Totally doable with games that feature a full platoon and several vehicles per side.
Battlegroup will support more material per side in the same time frame.

Hope this helps. Clearly I am biased; I'm talking about my old and my new favourite games. Based on experience they do both fit your requirements very well.

Thanks for the input everyone. I have some sets to investigate now. Nice comparison Peabody.
PiersBrand when you write of Battlegroup do you mean Battlegroup Kursk or Battlegroup Panzergrenadier or another Battlegroup?
Mike

I think 5x5 is borderline small for 20mm and tanks.
My preference is my stargrunt2 conversion.
Sg2 is a free download from gzg now.

Definitely not BKC for low level games. I don't care what the writers claim – if the system is 1 model = 1 tank then killing it shouldn't be reliant taking multiple shots at it.

RogerThat,

Battlegroup PanzerGrenadier pretty much fits all your requirements.

DB

Us

link

As always get the QR sheet and bullatin 1 free. We are unashamedly on the plausible side. May be tank kills are a bit motr than you want but the rest is as you want it. Be warned you have to command so it is a fair task to command say a company. It is a very flexable game so thinking is not optional, The rules is simple the game not neccessrily so. Also no pints sytem. This is for real stuff on real terrain, not implausible game terrain optimised to allow a points sytem to work.

I second the comments on bkc.
Not 1:1

Battlefront WW2 meets pretty much all you criteria. Very good set of rules; we play in 20mm with unchanged distances, and it works fine.

There can be markers but not enough to be a visual distraction.

Both games require you track activations, movement and pinning/suppression of units. In addition, you may have units out of ammo, immobile or with weapons KO'd. You will need to track that. If you want this level of detail, you have to monitor it somehow.

Diorama status markers are your friend. Say, a couple medics with a stretcher or a wounded man down for pinned. Dust cloud for movement. Ammo boxes for out of ammo. Mechanics changing a tire or track for immobilized. Not sure what you'd use for gun damage, maybe different colored smoke (plain black for gun damage, flames and lots of smoke for brewed up)?

BattleGroup Kursk- action on the Eastern Front in 1943. Obviouusly it focuses on the Kursk Campaign but is tweakable to do action after kursk. May need house rules for stats for SU85,KV85 etc.

BattleGroup Overlord- Dues to be released around April 20th? concentrates on the Normandy campaign. Not sure where the cut off point is for this .

According to the Guild site Battle Group Fall of the Riech which concentrates on late war ( fall of Berlin?) will be realsed towards end of the year. Perhaps Piers could kindly place a bit more meat on the bone and provide us with some more details .

Lion, we like a nice diorama style marker, but also find for demo / participation games that easy to read clarity is important for the new player.

I'm only splitting hairs here. It's hard to beat the charm of a table where all the elements come together visually and thematically.

You can try Operation Squad

link

I'm one of the authors so i don't make any comment…

Bye
Valentino

Cheers Valentino. Operation Squad is at the opposite end of the scale for the type of game RogerThat wants, aimed at up to 10, maybe a couple more, figures, literally a squad.

That said, nothing said against OP itself. My friend played it several tiems and loved it, and he's the one that intorduced me to BKC too (as he is very much a lover of grand scale games) he recommended OP and even wanted to adapt it to a Modern Warefare COD style table top game too, I will have to dive in when I can with that one.

Cheers,

Ark3n

Excuse me, i misread the initial sentence.

I've confused the term "as squads"…

However we have a new ruleset: ASSAULT PLATOON (you can see in our site the Armylist in italian version).

Soon we will have the English version for the handbook and for the Armylist.

Bye
Valentino

According to the Guild site Battle Group Fall of the Riech which concentrates on late war ( fall of Berlin?) will be realsed towards end of the year. Perhaps Piers could kindly place a bit more meat on the bone and provide us with some more details…

What ya wanna know? :)

Yes… FotR is due around October (dont quote me on that…) and the primary drafts are almost ready to go to our playtesters.

It using the Battlegroup system, but this one will have a new set of morale chits from the others to add a little more period feel. The usual rules, scenarios, lists and stats of course, with the tutorials and possibly some expanded house-tohouse combat rules.

We also have the fanzine due out around June that will add in the odd list and expansions for things plus tutorials.

Another vote for BattleGroup PanzerGrenadier (v2)