"Need rowers for 1st to 4th Cent. Navis Lusoria" Topic

Not "slaves" in loin clothes like Heston in Ben Him, but rather, at LEAST wearing tunic and a short sword or dagger, if not actually wearing helmet and armor too? As for the small ships, I mean the riverine craft, as found in the Mainz museum?? Thanks!

IMHO, try Old Glory!!! Mike Adams

I have been wondering the same thing. Someone on another thread mentioned that Scheltrum make such a craft, but I don't think they do rowers.

Cheers, Simon

What scale? Xyston do them in 15mm

"What scale…?"

Dang-it… Sorry, meant to say, 28mm. My apologies all.

So yes, 28mm rowers (not slaves), for 1st to 4th Cent. Navis Lusoria on the Rhine or Danube… I didn't see rowers of the sort on Old Glory's, or anyone else's website… But maybe that's because I need 'em in 28mm???

Orion Roman Sailors are 1/72, might do if you put a spacer under their butts?

@ poiter50. Thanks for the heads-up about Orion's Roman Sailors in 1/72. While "small," I think I could live with giving them a pillow to sit on as you suggest. However, they fall foul of my requirements since, to my eye at least, they look too much like Heston in Ben Him!!

My acquirement is for Auxilia or legionaries armed if not armored, rowing naves lusoriae on the Rhine or Danube… Like these lusty lads:

That's a tough ask! Seated minis are few and far between. There is a Wargames Factory plastic celtic charioteer who might work, with a headswap, but his hands are in his lap, rather than rowing. And there's only one of him, per sprue…

Cheers, Simon

That's a tough ask! Seated minis are few and far between.

Yes, I know… So "few" in fact, its why I asked if anyone had any ideas??? I am stumped. Of course, no-one makes the vessels either!! But, I have reason to think Dave @ Grand Manner may be entertaining an addition or two to his repertoire of ships and boats… So, I live in hope.

He doesn't have "crew" for any of his vessels, save four (two "idlers" and two steersmen) done by someone (by himself??) that come with the Roman Grain/Trade ship. He appears to have a "trade deal" that permits selling Gripping Beast Viking "Traders" that come with the appropriate Dark Age vessel… Therefore, planning ahead, I'm on the lookout for rowing crew in case a Navis Lusoria should suddenly materialize, but sans rowers…

Doing a 'tad more 'digging' on the world-wide-wait this afternoon… Seems like there at least two reconstructed naves lusoriae out there, which might interest model makers.

The one I have pictured above plies the Rhine, and is the somewhat smaller of the two. Viktoria is sponsored by the Rhineland Council, or Landschaftsverband Rheinland (LVR). It carries a crew of 20 rowers, a coxwain and a helmsman -- and as shown above can occasionally be seen sporting a 'scorpion' and its 'gunner,' as well. It weighs 4 tons, measures 16 meters x 2.8 meters, and carries a 9-meter mast.

The larger Regina, painted all-over in mid-blue, plies the upper Danube, and is sponsored by the University of Regensberg. Regina weighs 5 tons, measures 21.4 meters x 2.79 meters, and being larger than Viktoria, Regina carries a crew of 30 rowers.

If Dave @ Grand Manner (or anyone!) were to add models of the two, that would make for some VERY interesting table-top games (including in the skirmish-type game, SAGA!!).

So the pictures you posted are of real life vessels operated as a tourist attraction or re-enactment piece?

IIRC Imai used to make a small scale Roman warship that might suit conversion to this type of vessel? These may be Academy or similar these days.

@ poiter50 Yes, aside from Heston, of course!! The three are from various sites that discuss details about the Viktoria; construction, usage, etc. I'll go back when I have time and try to find a good illustration of her with her mast & sail affixed. I'll also see if I can find a decent shot of Regensberg's Regina w/out school (university) kids at the oars. I found a thumbnail showing some university lads dressed in blue tunics, but it is way-too-small to show effectively here… Patience, por favor….

@ BigRedBat. So, I did as you suggested, and I've gotten hold of some Wargames Factory plastic Celtic charioteer sets. They come three to a pack, so even though there is only one possibly-useful per sprue, there are three other figures to choose from to put into each car, so indeed from that standpoint it might work "economically" -- I am loathe to buy sets that I end up not being able to use after cannibalizing for just one figure!! Speaking of… the "buxom-lass" in the sprue is a bit "too liberated" as compared to the illustration on the latest Ancient Warfare cover (my copy of which only JUST arrived!). But hey… I digress.

I think these seated figures could work very well for the late 3rd to 5th Centuries --- with a head-swap, and so long as I was happy with men not wearing any armor (only long-sleeved tunic and trousers). Not as comfortable with this for the 1st to 2nd Centuries… Even with an Italic or Gallic helmet-head glued on (if I can even find any!!), the lack of armor is off-putting… Will have to think about it…

Not such a problem with this figure's hands being in his lap, rather than "rowing." I think I could just arrange the oars to be "out of the water," ready for the next stroke… as it were! Say, aren't the Oxford "Blues" rowing against "the other place" tomorrow!?? Should watch and get me some inspiration!

Glad you like them, I think they are a useful figure. One leg is rather longer than the other, I cut those off, shortened them and re-glued, on mine. I'm planning to use some as drivers for a projected Roman wagon train.

I can't see rowers wearing the legionary helmets; perhaps something a little simpler and less cumbersome. Marines were lower status in the EIR era, too. For the later empire, the Westwind Late Roman heads might work nicely, or Dalmatian pill-box caps, if you can find them.

Cheers, Simon

It took me a while to find some pix of the Regina where the effects were not ruined, either by the vessel being festooned with ADVERTIZING, or, by primary and secondary school kids in street clothes being at the rowing benches!!

Scheessh, wouldn't you think they could at least issue them tunicae for the day!???!

And here is a pix of the smaller Viktoria with mast fitted…

I like the way the boat and crew are in blue, per Vegetius.

Looking on the Scheltrum site they do Greek and Egyptian rowers in the 'Sackers of Cities' range tough you may have to convert them.
Thought I might buy a model to display as they look rather splendid.

Looking on the Scheltrum site…

…gives me pause. It hasn't been updated in a year, and there is mention several times of a secure order form, but I could find no such functionality. IIRC, there is also a hefty 50% surcharge for postage to the "Colonies…" I know postage recently went up at HM's PO, but not by THAT much!!!

Returning to this for a moment… What about the "Oarsman in short kilts" asserted to be "suitable for" the large and medium "Pictish/Irish skin covered curragh?"

Does anyone have pictures of the Scheltrum 28mm Early Greek Merchantmen (or the rowers)?

Or the "Pictish/Irish Oarsman in short kilts," or the large and medium "Pictish/Irish skin covered curragh???"

My Google-fu has failed, is there a link to the Viktoria or the other reconstructed boat?

I'll see about getting some links tonight. Just be aware, the two vessel's webbies do not really have many, or large pix. I culled some of the better larger resolution pix from numerous folks' web posts and/or blogs -- mainly from folks who had either had an outing aboard, or had seen the boats at a sponsored event…

@ poiter50… Sorry for the delay. Here are several links.

Regina, and at:

Ein Römerschiff auf der Donau;

Viktoria, and…

Antike Flotte fährt wieder Patrouille.

How's your German?

Actually Google Chrome does a good job of translating, so thanks for the links. One of them links to a Roman Wine ship replica as well.

One of them links to a Roman Wine ship replica as well.

Yes, built based on the famous bas-relief. IMNSHO, I think they followed the outlines of that carving too literally! Its a stubby, funny-looking vessel. Fortunately for the crew -- and navigation on Germany's water-ways!! -- it does float!

Did you see the article about the "pram" boat? The river trade/cargo vessel? Long, flat-bottomed, with lots of space for cargo?? It strikes me that if Grand Manner is looking for a new Roman-era vessel to add to their ships and boats line-up, they could do worse than settle on that very interesting model!!

As a follow up for this, I purchased a pack of the Orion Roman Sailors but they are more a true 1/72 and not really suitable. I am still contemplating picking up one of the Academy 1/250 scale Roman warships to convert to a 28mm Roman River boat. Anyone have any pics of the boat or perhaps a copy of the ship's plan from the kit?

Also does anyone have any pics of the Scheltrum Greek Rowers in 28mm?

…anyone have any pics of the Scheltrum Greek Rowers in 28mm?

AND the Pictish rowers???????????????

I've just unpacked my 2 SMER Viking Drakkar ships which include crew. The crew are in tunics, some wear helmets, others are bare headed. The box says 1/60 and would probably scale out at 25mm IMHO. Rowers hands & arms are at different levels to fit the oars but I'm thinking of the Academy 1/250 scale Roman warship (when the budget fits) to be converted and made into the river patrol boat that Nighthawk has posted links to.

I'm not sure but perhaps these are the Pictish rowers from Scheltrum
TMP link

Rowers on the Roman Rhine galleys, are likely to have been Germans- some were certainly Batavians in 69AD. As such, the Scheltrum rowers in the link might be suitable… with a Roman officer, perhaps.

Rowers on the Roman Rhine galleys, are likely to have been Germans…

Well… maybe.

Depends on who you think manned the Navis Lusoriae?? If you think auxiliaries did, then sure, some vessels' crews may have been drawn from cohorts that had been recruited from Germanic tribes along the Rhine & Danube. On the other hand, some crews would almost surely have been drawn from cohorts of Gauls, some of Spaniards, and even some from cohorts of Britons.

However, if you think the legions manned the vessels, then there were very FEW Germans with Roman Citizenship -- at least in the 1st & 2nd Cents. "Herman the German" had queered that deal for the Germans, with his dishonesty and betrayal.

Well it was largely manned by Batavians in 69AD, per Tacitus.

I can't see the legions involved in manning the boats, as sailors were paid a lot less.

This probably won't help you much but I am planning to make a few of those river boats in 10mm scale, a bit to small for you I'm afraid.

I was planning to visit the museum in Mainz this year and hopefully to have one model ready on display at the waregame event "crisis"(that's in Belgium) in November.

I still haven't decided how I want the rowers to look like but this topic surely was very helpful, thank you all!

If anyone has more suggestions I'd love to hear them!

Sorry to tack onto an old thread but has anyone progressed on this? Personally I didn't get my Academy ships.

The Pictish rowers from Scheltrum are all wearing a short 'kilt' and either have a bare torso or a plaid on one shoulder. Very nice figures but not exactly suitable for Navis Lusoria rowers.

A bit expensive but you could make an excellent rower from the Gripping Beast Late Roman Scorpion crewmember

These are the BG crewmembers
link

The standing figure top half (with cloak included) combined with a seated Pictish kilted lower half would be an interesting conversion.

OK, now to buy an Academy Roman warship in 1/250 and make the Navis Lusoria but in a Britain context for Dux Brit. I'm just reading Mason's book on the Roman Navy in Roman Britain. Not far into it but very interesting so far.

The standing figure would make a very nice helmsman.

Willie B, are the minis in the curragh in your link Gripping Beast, please?

Cheers, Simon

Hi Simon,

Yes, the Pictish crew is Gripping Beast but they are all conversions Should have been GB instead of BG…old age. The curragh is from Scheltrum.
Here's the crew that comes with the boat.

If you replace the bare heads with roman helmets or Pannonian caps you've got a good NL crew.

This one also makes a good helmsman. All you need to do is reposition the hands somewhat. Top left std. bearer.

Also the middle one of this GB crew will do nicely.

Thanks Willie! The GB Rowers look great, would be super with headswaps from, say, Westwind, and the chaps at the top left and bottom centre would make great helmsmen.

cheers, Simon

Personally amigos, I _prefer_ when people "re-visit" an old thread with _new_ information that APPLIES to the topic, rather than starting a new thread that's then disconnected… To be fair, at least some folk do provide a link to the old thread. "Hijacking" a thread to go off on some wild tangent does disconcert me as it does other folks, but _this_ ain't hijacking!

Hadn't thought about using GB Picts with a head-swap. And I like some of the GB LR Scorpion crew and/or std-brs as helmsmen. Good call! I'll look into it!

Are the GB Picts sold as part of the boat pack? i.e. do I have to buy a boat to get the rowers?