"Some Ideas for a new game with 28mm Fantasy" Topic

Or perhaps not so new but attempting to use them in a new way. I posted a thread not too long ago that I was thinking of designing my own set of 28mm Fantasy game rules.

TMP link

I have mulled many things over since posting that thread and it is the nature of such endeavors that some, if not all of my initial ideas have evolved or changed completely.

Here is a (relatively speaking) brief overview of some of the mechanics. Keep in mind this is all just theory at the moment and I have not had a chance to play test any of this yet. However, I wanted to see if the forum saw any glaring problems or suggestions. As I go forward I will set up a yahoo group to facilitate more discussion.

First off let me state I like rolling dice. I am fond of bucket 'o dice games and as Larry Brom once stated, "The rolling of the dice is the rattle of musketry to me." Or as will be the case for these rules it is the sound of weapons made ready and the clash of arms.

The game will use every die type from D4 up to D12. This is to reflect a number of factors such as quality of combatants, type of arms used, and the armor if any that they wear.

Movement will be a random roll of dice dependent on troop type or creature. However, I am not wedded to this idea as some of you have mentioned you prefer set movements for forces.

For now foot, i.e., infantry will move 2 x D8, Cavalry/Mounted will move 3x D8, and those things designated as monsters such as manticores, griffins, dragons will have movement dice based upon their creature type.

Games are scenario based but I will see about a points system as play testing evolves.

Deployment will be either be based upon the scenario or a roll off by the players. One side will be the attacker and one the defender. The defender will always deploy all units first; however, will have choice of the better ground. Attacker then deploys and begins the game with given orders until all commanders have gone or the orders have failed. Much like Warmaster or Hail Caesar.

The base number of success for any die roll regardless of die type is 4. The roll is for orders, close combat, shooting, saving throws, and morale/leadership checks.

Stats are: Attack, Shooting, Save, Morale/Leadership

Units are 10-20 figures for infantry that is relatively Man sized so everything from hobbits to dwarves, elves, humans, orcs, goblins, etc. fall in this catagory. Ogre sized figures such as…well ogres, minataurs, gnolls, bugbears, trolls, etc. are 5-10 figures, and monsters are units on to themselves. Most mounted units will be 5-10 figures. (none of this is set in stone)

Troop types are either green, regular, veteran, or elite. Their status will determine basic die type. For example a regular human will have a die type of D8 for all stats but you could vary the die types to reflect variety of quality.
Also there may be an additional die type depending on race, weapons, and armor.

Example: Human Warrior that is regular

His attack die is a D8, shooting is D6 as he carries a throwing ax, his morale is D8 and he is wearing light armor (chain shirt and helm) which gives him a D6 for a save. He also has a hand weapon and a spear with will provide him an extra die to roll in combat of a D6. He also has a medium shield and this will give him an extra D6 to go with his save from the light armor.

He is in combat with a Gnoll: The Gnoll is also a regular has an attack of D8, shooting of D4, Morale of D6, and save of D4 as he is not wearing armor. He gets an extra racial save die of D6 because he is a tough . He is also welding a two handed ax which will give him an extra D10 for his attack.

Combat is simultaneous regardless of who charged whom. The Human rolls his attack die of D8 and his extra die for the spear of D6. He rolls a 5 on the D8 and a 4 on the D6 so both hit. The gnoll rolls a 3 on his attack die of 8 (so a miss) but rolls an 8 with the D10 which is a hit. Now both combatants roll their saving throw dice. The human rolls the D6 for his light armor and the second D6 for his shield. He rolls 4 and 6 respectively and thus is not killed by the gnoll. The gnoll rolls his D4 and gets a 2, a fail, and rolls his racial bonus die of a D6 which comes up as a 4 a success. However the human caused two hits and the gnoll only saved one. He is dead.

OK that is as far as I have gotten. Let the chaos begin.

Why is movement rate random? Are you dealing with units or individual figure? Rob.

Reminds me of 2nd ed. D&D combat….

Rob,

The movement is for either individual or units. Although I am mainly thinking of units here. Some of the mechanics are borrowed from games like Brother Against Brother and Valor & Steel & Flesh. Like I said I am not wed to this particular aspect and in fact leaning more to making movement a constant.

Zephyr1, can you explain a bit more as that is an interesting assessment.

One of my thoughts about the various dice is that I am trying to set something up that does not require a lot of book keeping, or hit points, or much in the way of charts. Although at this moment without having played a game as of yet I do not know if this is too complex and would only work as a skirmish level game or will it work fine for larger battles. I want something that can accommodate mid size battles.

Anyway, please continue the discussion.

Oh and of course, I have not even gotten around to looking at how magic, terrain, and other issues might work.

Why is movement rate random?

If it's good enough for The Sword and the Flame…
Why should movement NOT be random? Why should it be predictable?

Sounds like ARES by MJ12.

I'm not sure about random movement rates. I do like the idea of the different dice to represent types of combat abilities.

The all roll hits at the same time for both sides, then saves is interesting. This seems good on a figure to figure rate, but if we have ten vs ten ? How are you planning to allocate the hits that do go through? Owning players choice? How about random? If ten figures, then roll a d10 for each successful hit. An interesting thing about this method is that one figure might take more than one hit which seems to add another randomness to the attack.

Matthew

Does that combat example apply to each individual figure in a unit ? If so that's way too much dice rolling and keeping track of hits and saves IMO.

Milgamex Ancients revisited

Perhaps you could decrease the variability of movement. With your scheme, foot might move anywhere from 2 to 16 units. If their movement was 6 plus D8 (for example), you wouldn't have such a wide range, it would be 7-14. This would please those who consistently roll a "1."

There are also D20s and D3s out there, in case you think of a use for them. But you probably knew that.

Grelber

@Marshal Mark, yes initially I was thinking it would be per figure in the unit that was in combat.

@theHawk, could you elaborate on Milgamex Ancients? I have never heard of it. Of course, I never assumed I was doing anything that is unique. Just trying to come up with something viable that I would like.

@Grelber, that is an interesting idea I will play with that concept. As to D20 and D3s I do not think I will need those ranges; however, I could be wrong.

@45th aka Matthew, as some are already pointing out the system while interesting and creates some intriguing mechanics might be too unwieldy for more than skirmish. Of course if what I have done is create a good skirmish game, while not my original intention, might not be bad either. I will have to set up some games this week and do some experiments to see what does and does not work.

@ John Leary, Ares??? Again I am sure I am not doing anything new but I am curious about these other systems and what worked and what did not.

OK just did a brief solo battle to try some things out. Here is an overview:

Good guys: Elven commander Veteran so a D10 Leadership

Regular 10 man unit of Elven Sea Guard with long bows, spear and medium armor

Regular 18 Viking Warriors with light armor medium shield and hand weapons with one with a great ax

Bad Guys

Chaos Commander Veteran D10 leadership

10 Veteran Chaos Warriors with Heavy Armor plate mail and great weapons

5 regular Orcs with medium armor and spears riding wargs

1 Veteran Troll

The table was a 4x4 area with minimal terrain as I wanted to just see how long it would take for things to get stuck in.

The good guys got the roll off and began by activating the Elven sea guard. The command roll was successful and the Elven commander ordered them to fire a volley at the Chaos Warriors. The warriors were within effective range. The front rank rolled their D8 plus a D6 for the long bows. The second back rank only rolls their D8. The Elves score 5 hits in total for 7,6,6,5,and 4. The Chaos warriors then roll five D10 armor saves getting a 10,8,6,3, and 2. The 10 cancels the Elven 7, the 8 cancels the 6, the 6 cancels the other 6, and the other two shots kill two of the Chaos Warriors. The Warriors test and pass their leadership.

Then the Elven commander order the Vikings to march forward and is successful but the Vikings only go forward 3 inches.

The Chaos Commander now orders the Chaos warriors forward and they get a good 12 inch move roll 7 and 5 on two D8. The Chaos commander then orders the Orc Warg riders and again is successful and the mounted Orcs move foward on 3D8 15 inches. The Order for the Troll fails and the turn passes back to the Good Guys

Turn 2 the Elven Sea Guard are ordered once again to fire upon the Chaos Warriors but now the Warriors are within close range so the front rank of archers add D4 to their roll and back rank rolls a D4 as well. Sadly they only cause 5 hits which the Chaos Warriors are able to save except for one. Again the Chaos Warriors pass their leadership. The order to Vikings sends them surging forward 13 inches but just shy of making contact with the Chaos Warriors. The line of sight to the Chaos Warriors is now blocked to the Elven Archers. The Chaos Warriors pass their order and charge into the Vikings the Warg riders pass their order as well and crash into the flank of the Vikings line. The Vikings pass their morale to take the charge. The Bad Guys fail their order on the Troll so now hand to hand is resolved.

Well let's just say the Vikings take it hard on the chin despite getting two D6 for armor saves. The Chaos Warriors were rolling hot and all their attacks came up 7 or higher on their D10 rolls. In other words even with a successful save the best the Vikings could get was a 6. They also took heavy casualties from the Warg Riders but managed to kill one. The Vikings and the Warg Riders both passed their morale test and I would have continued the battle but it is late. It seem to play fast to me but of course this is a small battle with only a few units each side. And that may be what this can handle. I will do more with it later this week.

Kim

Milgamex Ancients dates from late 70's. It used variable dice movement. Also used a system that gave a score to combat value on attack and defense, which when you think about it what your different dice idea does. It had an add-on for mythical armies, LOTR and Conan being popular at the time.
There are a few write-ups on the web and other posts on TMP.
It was designed by Arnold Hendricks (I think) who went on to design some classic computer games. One of these, Darklands, 15thC RPG in mythical Germany, was brilliant. The game manual was a complete pen-and-paper RPG sourcebook in itself.

@theHawk,

Well smack me silly! I have only had a moment to look at some of the write up but yes Milgamex Ancients does appear to be very close to what I am trying to do. Ah well there is nothing new under sun.