"Perry figs for Otterburn?" Topic

Can I use Perry figs from their Agincourt range for Otterburn?

From the command set the drummer and trumpeter will not work,but the rest…?
English knights,well equipped Scots?

Regards,
Kurt.

I would say yes, though I would probably avoid the figures with great bascinets, as IIRC these just started showing up by Agincourt. But the rest of the figures would probably work…

Damon.

The Perry figures are nice but I would personally go for Claymore Castings which have been produced specifically for the period.
link

Dave

Agree with Dave, start with Claymore (just placed another order with them this morning) and then add variety with Perry.

But you have to be selective as Damon points out. That will leave you buying packs from which you will not get full value. (If you're anal retentive about authenticity.)

Thank you for the response guys,
I have Claymore Castings but as Dilettante Gamer says it's just to add even more variation.

TMP link

As mentioned in my previous post I'm not very familiar with Medieval uniforms etc…
I'm not sure about the Perry figs wearing that 'female summer dress?' :D but I thought those with "bascinets" (had to google this one) might work since the Claymore command figs are wearing them.

But,as I say,I'm a totally noob on the subject,I'm probably making myself very ridiculous here (summer dresses and all,jezus.. LOL)

Greetings
Kurt.

Kurt,

There were 2 basically different types of Bascinets.

The Bascinet itself was a somewhat conical helmet with the metal drawn down lower at the neck and ears than the brow ridge. ALL the Claymore figures shown above are wearing bascinets, both visored and unvistored.

Great Bascinets were similar, but had extra components, to protect the lower neck or shoulders. In the Perry Figure photos above:

1. From left to right -- Figures 1 & 6 have Great Bascinets
2. none
3. From left to right -- figures 3, 4 & 6 have Great Bascinets
4. From left to right -- only figure 4 has a Great Bascinet.

Not sure on your reference of "summer dress" comment; most of the figures are wearing either tabards, surcotes, or jupons, certainly all of which would be available during the Otterburn period.

Also don't forget Kingmaker sold now by 1st Corps: link

Same sort of caveats apply here as well, and many figures have a more "Germanic" look, but could be mixed in with a bit of selectiveness…

Damon.

Thanks for the info Damon,
I see now what you mean about the Bascinets.

As for the "summer dress",
1 From left to right -- Fig 6
2 From left to right -- Fig 5
3 From left to right -- Figs 3 & 5
4 None.

Made me think of a female summer dress in the 60's or something… :/

Anyway,thank you very much for the info Damon,Now I know which Perry figs I can use and which not,thanks to you.
Many thanks,
Cheers
Kurt.

That first one you mention is wearing a Tabard.

On # 3, 3rd figure may be wearing a surcote or a tabard, but #5 is almost definitely wearing a Cyclas surcote.

A Tabard is a garment that could be either sleeved or sleeveless, slit up the sides but sometimes tied back at around the waist, designed to clearly show the knight's heraldry. A Cyclas Surcote was a one-piece garment (though often buttoned on the side) also designed to show heraldry, but was an older, looser style.

Damon.

Great knowledge Damon,
I'm learning interesting stuff here.
Don't want to bother you anymore with more questions but any chance on more info about the Claymore Islemen and Highlanders?
Where they present at Otterburn?Did they carry flags?etc…

With kind regards
Kurt

What's going on with the Scotts armies is not my forte (my thing is more the Hundred Years War), so while I can make comments about wargear and appearances, details like that are not something I've looked at unfortunately.

Damon.

Gentlemen, pardon the slight thread hijack, what is your opinion on whether the Perry Miniatures War of the Roses figures in civilian clothing can be used as early as the year 1415, or even earlier? In particular, the Duke of Buckingham figure (WR2). Thanks

link

any chance on more info about the Claymore Islemen and Highlanders?

I think that Claymore Castings is looking to include later battles of the period from 1388 up to the 1420s and the Islemen and Highlanders constitute the combatants at the Battle of Hardlaw 1411. Methinks.

link

No problem Damon,
You've given me help enough,many thanks.

Kurt.

@Fennels Mead

that might be possible indeed.
I'll probably order them anyway,lovely figs.

Regards
Kurt.

In my uninformed opinion the Perry miniatures go together well with the ones from Claymore…

Highlanders and Islesmen…in the 13/14/15th century armies you should not expect them to look any different to anybody else – just a smaller proportion of MAA. The chief distinction between Highland/lowland/English/French troops was linguistic, not sartorial. The majority of your guys should be armed with spears – including the MAA – with a proportion of archers; maybe around 10-15% for Scots 'at home' but about 30% for a Scottish force in France.

Highlanders and Islesmen…in the 13/14/15th century armies you should not expect them to look any different to anybody else – just a smaller proportion of MAA. The chief distinction between Highland/lowland/English/French troops was linguistic, not sartorial
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though the Gallowglass type figures produced by Claymore are quite distinctive and from what I gather were still dressed like that when you get up to the Elizabethan conquest of Ireland. I'd be surprised too if people from such relatively distant spots had the current model kit that was provided to those being mustered or equipped out of the Tower or Hull etc. Even in later periods like the ECW some rather old equipment was in use and Scots units were certainly differently equipped (and in some cases much more poorly with a seeming lack of helmets etc in that period both horse and foot).

Other than in the period of his return from hiding it's not at all clear that Highland troops were a significant factor in Robert I's armies, but there is nothing in either the narrative or record evidence to suggest that they would look any different to anybody else – padded jacks, a wide variety of helmets, armoured gloves and a spear. The conquest of Ireland and the Civil War is a different matter.
In the 14th C. English troops – like those of other countries – mostly provided their own kit. There is at least one example of English troops being issued with bows and spears provided by the crown however this is probably due to difficulties in extracting the service of men who would normally have military obligations and a consequent widening of the recruiting net to make up numbers.

hi – what about the Islemen/Gallowglass figures though that Claymore do – from what I can see even in Tudor times their kit was very much the same. Actually I was more looking at the Claymore spear etc armed foot (and not the MAA) for WotR shire levy infantry – presuming as someone said on another thread that someone is not going to chuck out a helmet just because its a bit old

Absolutely right about not chucking stuff just 'cos it's old. I can't recall seeing the Islesmen/gallowglass figures off hand, but it rather depends on what you want to do. If you're looking at the big battles your guys should be pretty well equipped. They would n't be recruited from the dregs of society, but from what contemporary material calls the 'middling' sorts of men – expected to have decent jacks/bacinets/armoured gauntlets and spears. Unarmoured guys brandishing scythes, clubs and giant axes are dear to the hearts of figure designers and wargamers, but not really a feature of the evidence.

They're here
link
link

I do recall them now, I'd just forgotten about them. The big axe thing is really pretty questionable, but wargamers and re-enactors like them. Lanercost writes of Scots having axes at their belts as a secondary weapon, but that's probably dramatic licence, and even if it's not, how long an axe can you carry at your belt? My rather limited personal experience suggest that anything more than about 20 inches is an encumbrance….f'nar f'nar.

though a bit later Durer's Galloglass are more sword armed
link
Actual clothing (chain mail and helmets) is quite anachronistic I'd say.

Yes, it's a lot later and Irish/Isles/Highland troops are n't relevant to Otterburn anyway. That said, there's really no reason to expect Highland troops of 14/15th C. to look any different from Lowland ones – or English ones either.

Claymore Castings werE actually designed for the Battle of Otterburn so they are surely the best miniatures for the job.

A few of the Perry Agincour to Orleans range could be fiyyed in but not that many.

Military styles changed, like any other period, during the Middle Ages.

Darrell.

Darrell Hindley Figure Painter:
darrellhindley.co.uk
Just Add Water II Blog (Painting etc):
link
La Journee Blog (Hundred Years War):
link
Gewalthaufen Blog (Late 15th Cebtury Blog):
gewalthaufen.blogspot.co.uk

I think that mixing the Perry figs and the Claymore figs would be great and both would work for the most part. Both lines are very nice too!