"British Grenadier--Am I playing it right?" Topic

I'm playing my first BG (well, started last saturday) solo, to try out the rules. I have BG Deluxe and am running Bunker Hill. I've read the rules, the Errata and just about every thread I can find, but I am still unclear about the following:

Note: I am playing 15mm on a 6'x 4' table.

1) The Scenario for Bunker Hill indicates that it should be played in 12-15 turns. It took me nearly 12 just to get the English Light Infantry skirmishers within long distance musket range. I am using half the inches rolled for movement at 15mm instead of centimeters, because…I'm american and don't want to count centimeters. LOL.

2) Infantry firing range. The rules (and playsheet) indicate that the range listed should be halved for 15mm. It is silent for artillery. I assume do NOT halve for artillery (if so, the 12lbrs on Moulton's hill would be out of range)

3) Close Order 2nd line Colonials firing. I (er…Gen'l Howe) advanced the Light Infantry skirmishers to about 6 inches from the provincials in close order behind the rail fence. The left regiment on the fence-line comprised of 5 stands of 4 models, or 20 figures. 16 of the models were outside the 30 degree firing arc, the final four on the right guide (so to speak), were within the 30 degree firing arc. I assumed 4 of the 20 could fire at the skirmishers? Or are they out of luck because the entire close order unit has to be within range and arc to present?

4) Any rules for oblique movements? I understand the mechanics for wheeling, but there aren't any for obliquing, that I've found, and my British needed some space to allow the 6lbers to have a crack at the redoubt on Breed's hill. I just obliqued them under standard movement rules.

Thanks in advance, I'm trying to learn these rules on my own having not had the benefit of an experience player to show me.

I would defer to Historygamer for any questions to BG.

I love the game, but I don't play it nearly enough to comment, as I have 25mm figures.

Eric

I'd defer to EC and SM for final rulings, especially since they are EC's rules.

He may not like my answers, but here goes.

Even with 15mm figures, we use the full moves (inches) and distances. Metric is something best left to the EU. :-)

We also use six sided dice instead of the average dice. It is an optional rule, but we find it cuts down on the confusion of which dice to use for what, and seems to have little impact on the game.

To your questions:

1) The Scenario for Bunker Hill indicates that it should be played in 12-15 turns. It took me nearly 12 just to get the English Light Infantry skirmishers within long distance musket range. I am using half the inches rolled for movement at 15mm instead of centimeters, because…I'm american and don't want to count centimeters. LOL.

**** See above.

2) Infantry firing range. The rules (and playsheet) indicate that the range listed should be halved for 15mm. It is silent for artillery. I assume do NOT halve for artillery (if so, the 12lbrs on Moulton's hill would be out of range)

**** See above.

3) Close Order 2nd line Colonials firing. I (er…Gen'l Howe) advanced the Light Infantry skirmishers to about 6 inches from the provincials in close order behind the rail fence. The left regiment on the fence-line comprised of 5 stands of 4 models, or 20 figures. 16 of the models were outside the 30 degree firing arc, the final four on the right guide (so to speak), were within the 30 degree firing arc. I assumed 4 of the 20 could fire at the skirmishers? Or are they out of luck because the entire close order unit has to be within range and arc to present?

**** We split stands, so I would say if they were within the arc those stands could fire. Not the ones outside the arc.

4) Any rules for oblique movements? I understand the mechanics for wheeling, but there aren't any for obliquing, that I've found, and my British needed some space to allow the 6lbers to have a crack at the redoubt on Breed's hill. I just obliqued them under standard movement rules.

****To me that is just a forward movement at an angle. Roll your one or two die and move the full distance, even at the oblique.

I hope I didn't make EC's head explode with my answers. I do love his rules, though like any gamer, we have tweaked them a bit to work for us.

If he does come on here, I have a question for him regarding orders.

I'm not a huge fan of hidden orders. If your opponent can't see them, they have no idea if your roll to change them is successful or not. You don't always have an umpire. Any suggestions on how to handle that? I'd ask on their board but it won't let me back in now. Funny time to get standards. :-)

Thanks HG. I think for my second go I might skip the 1/2 move and see how that plays out. The Lobsterbacks just finished their 20th turn and Howe is frantically trying to rally his Brigade which just got shot up on its first approach to the fence, while Pigot's lads initial charge onto the breastworks ended in a hasty retreat down the slope they just climbed.

You've described how I've been playing it. :) So far, so good!

lawquoter
I would add a couple of points to the tips you have already been given. Firstly you have to be consistent with your artillery and musket ranges, as well as movement. Either halve all or don't but don't halve some !
Secondly my generic 'get well' for a difficulty of the kind you mentioned is start closer together ! I don't see why those LI should be more than 3-4 moves away from the rail fence at the start of the game. Assuming an average move of 7 ins or cms, then starting them about one (15mm) or two feet from there (28mm) is fine. If the British artillery can't reach the main redoubt from its start point then once again I would say you need to think smaller in terms of scaling the battlefield.
EC

Thanks EC. I may have been halving the muskets but letting loose with the guns ( :O ). Oops. But the firing dice have been so bad for both sides that it's been a lot of noise and a lot of misses (off to the firing range before the second battle, I think!).

I agree, I should probably move the starting position up a bit next time.

2 more:

1) Interpenetration. The 52nd/5th just got battered near the rail fence, enough to force a morale test. They failed and had to retreat…right into Gen'l Howe. I didn't see any clarification for "interpenetration" of Generals, so I assumed Howe and his staff would be slapping rears with the flats of their swords and so I stopped the retreat less than the full move to Howe. Can units interpenetrate with Generals?

2) Can you elect to take less than the full move?

Thanks for the clarifications!

lq,
- If they retreat back and hit the unit behind them during the first half of the retreat move then both units take a DP.
- no, but you don't have to throw both dice. You can do one, and make your mind up about whether to throw again. Some people find this hard to accept, saying 'but my unit would never advance into the back of another' or 'if I tell them to go to the fence why don't they stop there ?' But the history of this period affords examples both of units manoeuvring into one another, and becoming disrupted, and of over zealous or timid commanders who did not go where their orders specified. The type of obstacle where units Do stop is the kind where serious harm would result if they went further – a deep river, a cliff, that kind of thing.
EC

So, to clarify, Generals (CinC and so forth) also take DPS?

No, only units take DPs. If you roll low on a general he just moves slowly. Drunk again. :-)

Oh, and don't expect massive casualties. This is not ACW. That is what we really like about those rules – the casualties are historically belieavable.

I didn't think that Generals took DPs, was getting confused (drunk?) there, lol…do we just move him "out of the way" if the Line regiment steps back onto him from retreating, as in my situation? (that's sort of what I've done in this test game).

I am liking the firing results, HG. Fire from long range, hit Nothing with smoothbore muskets. Get in close, get blistered. I like the feel, and am loving the DP system.

The general moves with the unit he is attached to. If just in the area, leave him, cause he might get captured. That happened you know. :-)

Long range, hope for some DPs. Come in close, volley, get those DPs off, and charge. :-)

We played White Plains the other day and I had militia and levies. It did not end well. :-( But we had fun and it felt right.

Well, although I may have bungled some of the rules, Messrs. Howe and Pigot are getting a pasting, Clinton has landed and is waiting for his orders. It's not over, by far, but the first assault wasn't pretty. :)

Here is a question for a more learned player – If two guns (models) firing together both pick up DPs (say one a piece), how is that against their firing? Minus one DP, or two? What happens if one gun picks up one DP, while the other pickes up two? What is the modifier?

hg,
it depends whether your two guns are part of the same battery or section for command purposes. If no, each gun is firing with one DP. If they each picked up a DP but are both part of the same unit, then the battery as a whole fires with 2 DP.
EC

Ouch. I was fighting then as one (2 guns firing), but wasn't sure of the modifier there. Thanks for the quick answer. Ran a game last night for six guys – five of which were new to the rules. We played Brandywine – Cornwallis' attack. Had a good game. We didn't get to the second wave of British troops, but this is the second time I have played this game, and it seems the Lights, Guards and Grens really can't take that hill on their own without the follow on troops.

The issue for the Americans is the limited space they have crammed full of troops. Two American regiments fell back off the table edge – and I declared them out of play at that point.

Still, the British elites don't seem sufficient on their own to take that hill. Has that been your experience?

hg,
My feeling with Brandywine is that the British elites and Hessian Grenadier Bde can normally do the job on their own but that the line brigades are needed to consolidate the advance. The key thing with the LI, Guards, and grenadiers as they go forward it to rally off DPs after each push forward. With good commanders and Elite status, many of these units may be able to get rid of three per turn. One of the grenadier officers, Hale of the 45th I think, actually describes rallying after each fence or obstacle they reached. He doesn't quite say "we stood until we had lost our DPs" but you get the picture ;-)
You are right that it is hard for the Americans to bring fresh forces to bear as the battle develops. It was on this flank of Brandywine that two Maryland regiments disordered each other – an example of another BG phenomenon, the type of accidental collision between units moving their full dice roll that some players would imagine could 'never happen'
EC

I will be trying the BG rules for War of 1812 in 15mm. One thing I don't understand is the ranges for muskets versus artillery. The effective range of muskets was around 120 yards a 6pdr about 800 yards so the initial suggestion of halving the musket range and keeping the artillery range seems to make sense?

Not sure I understood your post. Some more details?

Muskets could fire out to 120 yards.

A six pounder had a range of about 2,000 yards, but cannister (grape) was about 200-300. Of course, good luck hitting what you are aiming at with round shot.

Sorry, went back and re-read previous posts then yours. Now it makes sense.

Musket range – 120 yards
Artillery range for 6 lbr – 1500+ yards (over 10 to 1)

I think the relative ranges of muskets/cannon need a couple of caveats:-

1) Limited ammunition, line of sight, and observing fall of shot, all suggest that you would not normally open fire at maximum range on any but the largest battlefields (in the same way that most troops would not engage at maximum musket range).

2) The "close" terrain of most of AWI battlefields would add to the problems of observation and accuracy. There is also the issue of crew fatigue – you would generally go for as many cannister rounds as you could – in connection with which, you must remember that guns were usually smaller caliber (6pdr or less) and attached to infantry formations, so their primary role would be close support.

Personally, I think cannister should be have a slightly longer range, but that's just my op.

Canister and grape are not the same thing: canister aka case is a tin container filled with regular musket balls. Goes out to about 300 yards before becoming too dispersed. A single canister round from one gun is broadly equivalent to a platoon of infantry firing one volley.

Grape is an amount of iron shot, larger than musket balls and stacked around a wooden spindle on a sabot, then wrapped in linen and usually bound with thread to give a quilted appearance. Being composed of larger iron balls, grape has a longer effective range, but is normally used only by large caliber weapons like naval guns.

Very true on cannister, that is why I put (grape) in parentheses. It is often incorrectly referred to as grape. I hope I did not add to that by my post. :-)