"Meteors Versus MiGs " Topic

"During the Korean War, the RAAF's No 77 Squadron
was the sole unit within the United Nations Command
which operated the British-built Gloster Meteor Mk 8
jet fighter. In April 1951 the squadron withdrew its P-51
Mustangs from operations to re-equip with the Meteor,
returning to Korean skies in July, and remaining until the
armistice was signed on 27 July 1953. During this period,
the Meteor flew in the air-to-air, bomber escort, combat
air patrol and ground attack roles. Its performance in
the air-to-air role, in which it was pitted against the
Russian-built MiG-15 flown by the Chinese Air Force, is
a controversial subject that bears critical assessment."
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one of my father's best friends was shot down and killed while flying a meteor

All together now "All I want for Christmas are my wings swept back!"

And the migs only managed to shoot down four meteors whilst the meteors shot down five migs.

Stalemate, the War in 1952–1953
MiGs versus Meteors

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Man, all those disadvantages and being outnumbered 4:1.

Talk about a bad day.

Hopefully, if history repeats, we won't stop attacks south of the Yalu.

Just goes to show you that it isn't always the aircraft but the pilot and training and experience too. Almost even it seems. I don't think they missed their F-51s. Robert

And the migs only managed to shoot down four meteors whilst the meteors shot down five migs.

It seems most air tallies from this period are highly suspect on both sides. At one time, USAF accounts gave a 10:1 kill rate in favour of the Sabre when head to head w Mig-15B's. This is now accepted as nonsense propaganda and the real kill rate was around 1:1, as you would expect from evenly matched a/c.

Wow. From 10-1 t0 1-1? I found this on Wiki (taken with a grain of salt of course),

"By the end of hostilities, F-86 pilots were credited with shooting down 792 MiGs for a loss of only 78 Sabres, a victory ratio of 10:1.[31] More recent research by Dorr, Lake and Thompson has claimed the actual ratio is closer to 2:1.[32] The Soviets claimed to have downed over 600 Sabres,[33] together with the Chinese claims, although these are thought by some to be an overcount as they cannot be reconciled with the 78 Sabres recorded as lost by the US.[34] A recent RAND report[35] made reference to "recent scholarship" of F-86 v MiG-15 combat over Korea and concluded that the actual kill:loss ratio for the F-86 was 1.8:1 overall, and likely closer to 1.3:1 against MiGs flown by Soviet pilots"
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I've almost finished a reasonably simple 3D Sabre vs Mig-15 tabletop game. Our club has been play testing it and the response has been encouraging. It should be ready to post online within the next couple of weeks at runtus.org

Perhaps they are throwing in other American aircraft as well, to get to the 1:1 ratio, e.g. Panthers, F-84s, F-51s, etc.

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Hi all,

This link is interesting about the Korean war. It also challenges the 10:1 ratio the US claimed. Another interesting note is that the Soviet pilots were hopelessly outnumbered especially during take off and landings. Responding to one earlier comment in this thread: The interview also states that there were attacks higher north, even strafing runs on Soviet airfields. A good read if you have the time

"On Sunday, 8 October 1950, First Lieutenant Ray Carter took an afternoon flight of two up the east coast to the very northeast corner of North Korea …where Korea, Manchuria and Russia join borders. Finding a multitude of targets on the roads near Kyongwon, on the Korean side, he wasn't aware when he crossed the border with Russia, heading northeast …into forbidden territory. Soviet territory!

Continuing through the sparse valleys of the coastal range, he led his flight onto an open plain and discovered a "secret airfield" with dozens of airplanes on the parking apron. However, because he was getting low on fuel, and the anti-aircraft fire was heavier than what Ray had been used to, he led just one wild strafing pass down the long line of 'enemy' aircraft, then turned out to sea and followed the winding coastline back to Pusan, arriving long after dark.

Two hours before Ray's flight reached Pusan's K-9 base, we had been alerted to a problem by a Top Secret message from Far East Air Force Headquarters. The steaming message came straight from General MacArthur, with emphasis added by Gen. Stratemeyer the Far East Air Force Commander:

"Who in the bloody hell's been shooting up the Russian airplanes on the very outskirts of Vladivostock?!"

That "secret airfield" they'd strafed was at Sukhaya Rechka …sixty miles inside Soviet Siberia, and the Hotlines from Moscow to Washington were buzzing with indignation.

Washington was very apologetic, assuring the Soviets that it was a simple and understandable navigation error on the part of our pilots, and that they would be severely disciplined. Our government even offered to pay the Russians monetary damages for the loss of their equipment destroyed in the raid. They finally allowed the matter to drop, and a possible provocation of World War Three was allowed to pass almost unnoticed.

Ray Carter felt terrible about attracting so much adverse high-level attention to the Squadron. I consoled him by telling him that he was getting his wrist slapped for his error in navigation …he was grounded for a week, ' sent to Tokyo for high echelon interrogation, then placed on R & R Leave until things cooled down …but, as I told him before he left for Tokyo…

…he'd probably be awarded the Air Force Cross for having carried out the very first American air raid against Russian territory!"

Duane E. 'Bud' Biteman,
Lt. Col, USAF, Ret
‘…One of those Old, Bold Fighter Pilots'
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Standard practice to produce inflated kill statistics, to boost your own pilots confidence, but crucially to undermine the enemy's. Bill Gunston, showed how the IDF carried out this practice, during the AIW's and as a result Syrian pilots over the Bekaa Valley would sometimes eject when hearing their RW sensors activate, or if an IAF plane manoeuvred into their 6 o'clock position.