"Italian wars questions" Topic

Does anyone have any images of Italian or French soldiers from the period 1500-1530? If not are there any written descriptions? Also, does anyone know what the "light cavalry" on the French left at Ravenna consisted of? And whether the 1000 archers brigaded with them were actual archers or lighter gendarmes?
Thanks

You may want to search for posts by "olicana".

You can find some images of Italian soldiers here:
link

In the Italian wars era,the (mounted) "Archers" of the French cavalry were in fact heavy cavalry, just less fully armored than the Gendarmes. They did not carry a bow. Yhje term was a confusing carryover form the Medieval "Lance", wheach of which was composed of one knight and several supporting, lighter armored troops.

Gonsalvo,
That is wrong I'm afraid, there is ample written and pictorial evidence showing that the French Ordonnance Archers carried bows during the the first decades of the Italian wars and dismounted to use them. The French archers at Ravenna fought dismounted for example.

… and which could also operate as heavy cavalry.

Some picture links:
Paintings of Italian Soldiers of the early 16th Century
. St George by Carpaccio, c.1500. The saint is shown as a fully equipped Venetian man-at-arms, though without a helmet & an alternative scan
. Young Knight in a Landscape, 1510 by Vittore Carpaccio
. Portrait Of A Florentine In Armour c.1510 attributed to Francesco Granacci
. The siege of Padua 1521 by Niccolò degli Agostini
Renaissance Italians by George Gush
Prints of 16th Century Italian Soldiers
Stradioti: Balkan Mercenaries in Fifteenth and Sixteenth Century Italy By Nicholas C. J. Pappas
France: 16th-Century Military Costume by Racinet
France: 16th-Century Peasants And Soldiers by Racinet
The French by George Gush
The Universal Soldier by George Gush
The Swiss by George Gush
Swiss by Urs Graf

Druzhina
Illustrations of Soldiers

I would be careful about relying on some of the fanciful Victorian era prints above (e.g. Prints of 16th Century Italian Soldiers).

There is a pretty good depiction of French infantry (guards, likely) with Francis I in Kostams "Sovereign of the Seas", p14. As source there is only Stratford Archives given for this and most other images, though. The image looks contemporary, showing a young Francis (around 15-20 from my estimation) and shows soldiers not unlike the Swiss in the first decade of the century -perhaps these were Swiss, though I think these are rather a French elite guard. It includes a mounted "officer" in similar garb.

For some period pictures try having a look here:

Cronaca della Napoli Aragonese in the Pierpont Morgan library

link

It is a manuscript that depicts French and Italians at the time of Charles VIII's invasion. but you may have to do a bit of work and search through the whole lot.

The Ashmolean Museum in Oxford has one of several near contemporary Flemish works that depict Pavia

link

and another from the same Flemish school in the Royal Armouries Leeds

link

There are also photos of extracts from the Pavia tapestry in the Capodimonte in Naples readily available on the web.

There's also this picture of the battle of Fornovo held in the National Gallery of Art:

link

The zoom is not too hot but there are parts of it available elsewhere on the web.

Thomas,
If you register it is possible to download for free a 30000x1977 HD version of that image which is the best I've ever seen of the Fornovo print.

Great stuff which shows clearly that the French Gendarmes, foot and servants were wearing some form of livery coats which varied in style dependening on their status. Also shows the French Archers with their longbows and the Swiss foot complete with breasplates and arm harness.

For the French and Italians you also have you have Jean Marots "Le Voyage de Genes" which chronciles the French conquest of Genoa in 1507.
link

The most interesting images are these
link
link
link

In the images you see the Gendarmes which get most of the detail as well as more or less shadowy figures representing Swiss infantry, Stradiots, dismounted Ordonnance arches using the longbow and what may been Aventuriers.
Behind the Gendarmes in the last image are two groups of Archers in red and yellow livery coats who probably represent the Archers of the Royal Guard
From an old thread on TMP
TMP link

The infantry uniforms on these do look similar to the one in Kostams book:

A young Francis I, so I presume the uniforms would be in the 1515-1520 era. It looks like a slighly more flashy version of the older gear.

Daniel,

Thanks for tip on NGA download! Had not picked up on that, like wise the Marot plates. I recall reading somewhere (but cannot recall exactly where) that the engraving of Fornovo might have been commissioned by the Swiss to commemorate their part in the battle. It does illustrate a wide range of troop types from both armies. Thanks to the internet there are a lot of contemporary image that can now be accessed remotely!

Thomas,
Afaik the artist behind the print and for whom it was made is unknown but the hints all point to a Swiss connection.
After all the Swiss take center stage while the King of France is pushed to one side and is not easy to spot a first glance.

Lots of interesting details, for example the French and the Italians are shown as using swords with diffrent styles of hilts while the Swiss have yet another style of sword.

You also have the diffrent styles of coats worn by the French and Italian men-at-arms over their armour. Styles which are confirmed in other sources such as these drawings by Dürer
The French Trophy (1518)

Btw it is interesting that Dürer choses a warbow as a distinctly French style of weapon.

Then you have the Italian Trophy also from 1518

All in all I think that the Fornovo print was either made by an actual eyewitness or by an artist who had access to eyewitness accounts and took great care to reproduce them in the print.