"UDT vs. Fukuryu" Topic

Suicide divers (Japanese: 伏龍, Fukuryu "Crouching dragons") were a part of the Special Attack Units prepared to resist the invasion of the Home islands by Allied forces. They were armed with a mine containing 15 kg (33 lb) of explosive, fitted to a 5 m (16 ft) bamboo pole. They would dive and stick the pole into the hull of an enemy ship, destroying themselves in the process. They were equipped with a diving jacket and trousers, diving shoes, and a diving helmet fixed by four bolts. They were typically weighed down with 9 kg (20 lb) of lead, and had two bottles of compressed air at 150 bars. They were expected to be able to walk at a depth of 5 to 7 m (16 to 23 ft), for about six hours. This new weapon is only known to have been used a few times operationally:

January 8, 1945: Damage by suicide divers to Infantry landing craft (gunboat) LCI(G)-404 in Yoo Passage, Palaus.
February 10, 1945: Attempted attack by suicide divers on surveying ship Hydrographer (AGS-2) in Schonian Harbor, Palaus.

Several deaths occurred during training due to malfunctions

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There's more, obviously.

So what happens when Underwater Demolition Teams reconnoiter a beach defended by Fukuryu? What happens when UDT are tasked with destroying beach obstacles and they are defended by Fukuryu?

Miniatures, rules, thoughts…….

Probably a short-range knife fight, with the UDTs having the upper hand, so to speak, since they aren't encumbered with heavy tanks and weights, and don't have to walk slowly on the bottom of the sea.

Rudimentary spearguns to follow, shortly thereafter, for slightly more distant battles.

I doubt the stick bombs can be detonated by touching a diver, since they'll probably need more force to trigger that, at least initially.

All will be in trouble, once the sharks get the scent of blood in the water.

Home-made rules, unless you can get a set of the old Thunderball ones, produced by Goblintooth.

I wish someone would put their minis back into production.

I would think the Japanese would either figure out how to detonate their mines against divers or start carrying grenades. Shock waves do a lot of damage underwater and if both are killed it's a win for the Japanese.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek
Bunker Talk blog

Of course, the Americans will counter with bang-stick tipped spears, fired from their spearguns.

Did UDT's have spear guns in WWII?

I think the engagement would have to work the other way around. The Allies start stationing UDT-type teams (armed with better weapons) to protect ships in port due to a hightened incidence of Fukuryu activity. Then the Japanese up the ante with additional weapons.

It would end up being a good defense of a stationary objective scenario with an interesting environment. Victory conditions would have to include marginal success for the Fukuryu demoing any ship. Only their command knows what their actual target is; any explosion will get press and likely inhibit some type of Allied capability.

The reason I don't buy the Fukuryu as shore defenders is a 6 hour limit means a lot of watch changes to maintain a 24/7 defense. A beachhead is a very large area to patrol continuously vice a harbor. It would make much more sense to take out the incoming patrol as they transition into the water than to go man-to-man in the environment.

You would have to have an operationally immediate requirement that had none of the typical intel and surveillence as prep in order to have a suprise encounter between UDT and Fukuryu.

'Course that's just off the cuff. Still think it is an interesting scenario, even though I envison it working the other way around. Of course, the japanese might have an underwater patrol protecting a high value target in a protected location that the Allies want to take out stealthily.

That's the funny thing with war Bunkermeister, its not a case of who wins, but who loses the least…

Yer right though, water doesn't compress like air (hence why getting air in the brake fluid line makes them unresponsive) so any explosion under water needs I don't know, 10x the distance from the explosion to not be effected as you would in air. (that's why using dynamite for fishing is quite effective too…)

I'm with Etotheipi on this one. The Fukuryu are offensive, not defensive, and the defensive scenario wouldn't work for all of the reasons that he outlined. I think it would be an interesting scenario if you simply reversed the situation.

"Did UDT's have spear guns in WWII?".

I don't think so, but don't really know.

Still, they are fairly easy to produce, especially for a machine shop on board a naval vessel, with a little ingenuity.

I can see them being used defensively, since it takes awhile to get all the naval vessels arrayed to start an assault on a beach. The naval bombardment would be the starting gun for getting into position, or at least getting ready to do so.

So, rules, figures?

Resurrecting this thread.

Any new developments that anyone is aware of. With modification the Bolt Action Bamboo Spear Fighter Squad looks like it has some promise.

Thunderball and its associated miniatures are available again, albeit from a different seller – MSD Games (of Luftwaffe 1946 fame). Rumour has it they are working on revamping the rules and figures somewhere down the line. link

It was so poorly planned (both sides) that there probably wouldn't be a solution. The stick bomb men would probably spend most of the tine on shore awaiting orders,

Thunderball back. Yes!