"Khurasan releases Qing Chinese" Topic

We're pleased to announced the released of a range of 15mm Q'ing (Manchu) Chinese, which have the peculiar qualification of being suitable for battles between the seventeenth and twentieth centuries!

Manchu command

Manchu bannermen (armoured horse archers)

Mongol bannermen

Green Standard infantry

Tiger Men Fanatics

Jingal and crew

Available now!
link

They look great ! I wish they were 28mm though …

ooohhh Shiney!

Just when I think that I have all the figures I need – you drag me back – WOW!! and excellent painting

Did someone say 'Boxer Rebellion in 15mm?'

There goes my wallet, hiding under the bed again.

Nooooooooo!

*locks purse in ultra-safe safe and erases combination from mind*

Those figures are just too tempting!

I should hasten to mention the models were sculpted by Mike Broadbent and painted by Rafa Archiduque.

Awesome !
Not sure if it will be a good army for the rules I play but it will be a beautiful one for sure.

So I hurry to finish to paint my Tang now.

What rules do you play?

Because my understanding is it's taken the FoGR tournament circuit by storm….

What we need, apart from Quing with firearms, is a one of those lovely dragon headed heavy guns and crew.

Oh and Tai Pings of course.

I'm waiting for my Khurasan order so I can see if my Falcon figures match. If they do I will be delighted.

If not I'll buy more Khurasan.

To Jon,
I was mainly thinking using the miniatures as Ming for the french antiquity/medieval rule "Art de La Guerre".
I've stop playing FOG, to many miniatures needed for me to paint.

Got some of these today and am delighted to find that they are very compatable with my Falcon Imperial Chinese.

All the same I hope Khurasan continue to expand the range as Falcon are very hard to get.

It also occurs to me that they fit with Outpost's Ming heavy cavalry with swords or lances. Things are looking up for those of us interested in the Tai Ping and Opium Wars in 15mm.

I always wanted to due a Jurchen army for the Samurai expidition against them!

These look great!

What we need, apart from Quing with firearms, is a one of those lovely dragon headed heavy guns and crew.

How big were they? Reaper has a dragon-headed heavy gun in the Dwarves range, if I can find it!

Pic from CMON:

coolminiornot.com/5140

Uesugi san,
Was the expedition you mention a part of the Imjin War? If so, I'd be very happy to use that expedition as a reason to pick up these Jurchen as well!

I do not need Manchu bannermen, I do not need Manchu bannermen
Oh hell I want the whole lot.

Qing Qannon!

Should be added to the range in a few months….

"Uesugi san,
Was the expedition you mention a part of the Imjin War? If so, I'd be very happy to use that expedition as a reason to pick up these Jurchen as well!'

Yes! It was! Opening Turnbull's "Samurai Invasion" its on page 76. In 1592 Kato Kiyomas led approximately 8,000 Japanese and 3,000 Koreans on an approximately 50 mile penetration into "Orangai" territory, purely for military heroics!

Kato took at least 1 Orangai "castle" and they also engaged in one significant open battle, where the Japanese claimed to have taken 8,000(!) heads!

I always thought Japanese arquebus squads against Mongol (Jurchen) mounted horse archers would be a fun game!

Hope that helps Wulfgar!

Kato took at least 1 Orangai "castle" and they also engaged in one significant open battle, where the Japanese claimed to have taken 8,000(!) heads!

But when Nurhaci launched a counter assault, Kato retreated….

By the way, it just occurred to me that, if you field the Tigermen, it actually allows you to use Qing Tigers in the 17th century!

Good to see the artillery have you more on the way?

Also is this range proving popular so far?

Not sure what you mean by more?

It's selling ok -- renaissance is basically the lightest selling of all my various ranges. Sci fi is #1 in terms of return on investment.

More packs, infantry command, arquebusiers, hopefully a pack of Tai Ping? in the range not more artillery.

Yes we, who don't play it, owe Sci fi a lot when all is said and done.

Thank you, Uesugi san. It was kind of you to respond, and, happily, I have that book on my Kindle; though I have not yet had time to read it.

Khurusan, I just made the order for a modest number of armored Jurchen. Thanks!

Does anyone know where to find information on the clothing and especially the flags carried by the Green Standard troops? I'm looking around the early to mid 17th Century, at events leading to the founding of the Qing Dynasty and the consolidation period against Ming remnants afterwards.

I think I've got a good handle on the mounted parts of the Manchu/Mongol banners, at least the 8; but I'm running into vague generalities regarding the ethnic Han Infantry. There is a fair bit on the Ming (especially thanks to Killer Katanas) and a couple of single line remarks in various threads on the ChinaHistoryForum to suggest that there was an infantry component assimilated into all the Banners (which may have taken some time to achieve?).

If that is the case, would the infantry have carried versions of the Banner flags and be uniformed in corresponding colours or is it possible/probable that they retained the earlier Ming designations? I have to say I tend towards the former, but given the fact that there were wholescale defections from the Ming to the Manchu by entire commands then it can't be ruled out.

Any pointers gratefully received.

Rudorff, it seems that the Manchu, Mongol and Han banners were all the same in the 17th century, as is suggested in Di Cosmo's "Diary of a Manchu Soldier in 17th Century China." As you probably know, there were eight banners for each -- red, yellow, white, and blue, then those same four but with red borders on the flag, the red one substituting a white border. In line with Nurhaci's I Imperial ambitions, there was a dragon in the middle of the banner. Examples from the 17th century:

Ignore the green element on the outside of the bordered flags.

I assume that, as the Han were incorporated into the banner system, they would have been issued identical flags.

Here's a mid 17th century illustration of Chinese bannermen in a Manchu army:

You can see that most of their clothing is individually supplied, but the cloth armour they wear is uniform--the thigh protectors either yellow, or simply leather or unbleached linen with black edging, but the chest armour, a sort of vest, is red with white edging--the same as the second (bordered) red banner. (The blue appears to be a discolouration.) Note that our Green Standard infantry are based on the troops shown in this image.

My suggestion would be to use that as a guide and paint the sleeveless-jacket armour in the colour of the relevant banner.

By the way, not doing myself any favours by pointing this out, , but the Ming and earlier dynasties are not a good source for Manchu indantry, even the Han elements. Remember that the Manchus dictated Manchu dress as a standard for all Chinese and there was a very sharp break in costume appearance upon the accession of the Manchu -- in fact the dress we associate with typical old-fashioned ethnic Chinese costume, as in old cartoons and romantic 19th century books, was in fact quite different from Han costume which had evolved over thousands of years.

B*gger, I'm going to sell the tiger men individually and without the shield for those who want an officer in the unit -- I'll just break open sets of Tigermen to do so. The spearmen in the Green Standard units should do as standardbearers.

The strength of the Qing in FoGR was what drove the decision to make this army, and the most powerful Qing list uses masses of foot archers and no arquebusiers, so the arqs are not at the top of the list for now, but I'll release the cannon -- the thing I got the most complaints about, and rightly so, as the list requires cannon! -- and see how sales go. If they warrant expansion I will certainly do so.

I do plan on making tai ping as well as ever victorious army, but not right away. Also as I plan during this year to make Russo-Japanese War in 15mm scale -- some of the sculpts for the Russians are already made by Mike Broadbent -- they pretty much demand I make boxers too.

"I do plan on making tai ping as well as ever victorious army, but not right away."

Grand news Jon thank you.

Khurasan, Thanks, you pretty much describe the direction my thoughts were heading in, I think I just needed to see someone else write it down first. I've made flags based on those your picture shows, so all I need now is the figures to arrive and I can get started. Thanks again.

Figures just arrived, very, very nice! Lovely clean castings, detail is superb.

I've recently recieved some of these and they are lovely figures. The detail and quality is superb!
I only just stumbled upon this news release which is great as it has the source drawing for the infantry which is really helpful!

As for dragon artillery. Outpost wargames have a Ching / Manchu Dynasty Range.
I have bought some of the medium guns (without crew) and seperate barrels so I can mount them on other types of carriages. I think this is a dragon head, but it may not be as they are small for my eyes! I'm going to use the guns on carriages for junks and a few in batteries and then mount some barrels on more traditional carriages!

The cannon and crew are at the casters and painters now so hopefully I'll add the artillery to the range soon. Will also be adding green standard matchlock men, as this range has sold fairly well for a less mainstream army.

A bit down the road will make Ever Victorious Army and some Taipings.

Awesome!

Now to get my poor wallet back out from under the bed. You keep scaring it, K! :P

Are their any other horses they fit ?
with knotted tails, tassles etc..

Also, why do the cavalry have their quivers tied up on their backs???

Tom..

Illustration from the 'Illustrated Guide to Archery Method' by Liu Qi (Qing, 1722)

Crumbs I'd better get painting then as I will want some of those new lines as well I reckon!

Oh, for reference I added this photo in another thread showing how Khurasan compare size wise to some other ranges.

Looks like somebody was reading CHINA MARCHES WEST by Peter C. Perdue not so long ago….

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Great news about the matchlockmen, EVA and Tai Ping looking forward to all of them.

OOps…meant to add in my photo above Left to Right.
Lancashire Games, Old Glory, Grumpy Miniatures, Irregular and of course Khurasan!

Just for your information, I've contacted The Virtual Armchair General about the Manchu Imperial flag line that is showing as 'pending'. It has been somewhat stalled by the artists work commitments, but if enough people show an interest it may go ahead. So if, like me, you want some, email him at tvag@att.net

Anyone know of good 28mm Qing amendment?

Any chance of those matchlockmen appearing? :)

I am sure that such a threadomancy does not lead to a reaction, but you can certainly mail Khurasan directly. They are usually very responsive.

BTW: Just got some of the depicted minis a couple of weeks ago. Fine stuff, highly recommended!

I did contact them, and the answer was no, the matchlockmen will not appear, because "nobody" is buying the range.

(Which unfortunately means I probably won't buy anything from the range either.)

Now I almost feel like a nobody :-/

Got myself two dozen horses for my Imjin war Ming and 8 jezzails for Ming conversions. Well, that probably does not cover the cost for the range.