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"Russian Infantry Standards" Topic


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Comments or corrections?

Widowson07 Mar 2013 4:01 p.m. PST

The trouble with Viskovatov Vol 17 is that the first real issue of standards listed is for 1803, but there were flags issued in both 1800 AND 1797. Regiments not issued model 1803 are presumed to be carrying an earlier issue, but that could be either the 1800 or the 1797 issue.

I am specifically looking at the following regiments in the 1805-07 period:
Tauride Grenadiers (1803?)
Tchernigov Musketeers (?)
Dnieper Musketeers (1800?)
Navaguinsk Musketeers (1800?)

AND all three guard infantry regiments.

Am I missing something in Viskovatov?

14Bore07 Mar 2013 5:21 p.m. PST

Osprey Flags of the Napoleonic Wars shows Gren Tauride issued on 4/25/97, Tchernigov Musketeers 7/3/98, Dnieper Musk on 3/8/98 and Navajinsk on 2/22/99 (added by Paul I). Guard Regt's had 1800 pattern until April 1813. Hope this helps.
Checked here as well as shows same.
link

Widowson07 Mar 2013 5:46 p.m. PST

For all we know, the Napflags flags are based on Osprey, who may or may not be correct.

But according to 14Bore, all four regiments I listed would be carrying the 1797 model flag?

Widowson07 Mar 2013 5:49 p.m. PST

14Bore – that same web site offers a model 1803 flag for the Tauride Grens. So when was THAT issued?

Seroga08 Mar 2013 7:10 a.m. PST

It is likely best to this case-by-case ….
In general, it is likely going to much easier to find this info if you search eitehr the actual name of the regiment in Russian or at least a correct transliteration.

Таврический гренадерский полк / Tavricheskiy grenaderskiy polk
25 April 1798 awarded 10 flags model 1797, 1 with white cross and the others with colored cross.

picture

picture

picture

30 March 1800 awarded new flags model 1800 1 with white cross with red & black corners, others black cross with red corners. For distinction at Bergen in Holland in the 1799 campaign, there was a blue ribbon under the eagle with the legend "За взятiе знамя въ сраженiи противъ французовъ въ Голландiи подъ г. Бергеномъ 1799 года"

picture

Seroga08 Mar 2013 7:40 a.m. PST

Черниговский мушкетерский полк / Chernigovskiy mushketerskiy polk

Model 1797 flags awarded 3 July 1798. Next flags awarded in 1814.

White Cross

picture

Colored Cross

picture

Seroga08 Mar 2013 7:48 a.m. PST

Днепровский мушкетерский полк / Dneprovskiy mushketerskiy polk

Model 1797 flags awarded 8 March 1798. Next flags awarded in 1810.

White Cross

picture

Colored Cross

picture

Seroga08 Mar 2013 8:02 a.m. PST

Навагинский мушкетерский полк / Navaginskiy mushketerskiy polk

Model 1797 flags awarded 22 February 1799. Next flags awarded in 1845.

White Cross with rose/pink & black corners

Colored Cross with bacl & white cross and rose/pink corners

It is the second row here (although the rose/pink looks a little too too cool or purple-ish to me) :

picture

Seroga08 Mar 2013 8:33 a.m. PST

For the three Guard heavy infantry regiments …

All the regiments had the same flags, awarded 1800. Next flag awards were 1813. One with White Cross, others with Colored Cross.

picture

picture

picture

Meiczyslaw08 Mar 2013 11:21 a.m. PST

For those who haven't decoded Seroga's pictures to get the link, most are from this site:

link

That's about the only English page; I'm probably going to try running them through some automatic translators later, because that looks really useful for when I get back to Russians.

Widowson09 Mar 2013 1:41 p.m. PST

Meiczyslaw:
Not being able to read Russian is a real disadvantage. Let me know if you get anywhere with the translations.

Seroga:
As usual, you ARE the source. So the Tauride Grenadiers were issued a model 1800. Were they ever issued the 1803 flag? If not, the Warflags web site is wrong. No shock there, but I wonder where they got their info.

Seroga09 Mar 2013 4:30 p.m. PST

Widowson,

Thank you for the kind words.
I am really not a source at all, I just know the language (at least somewhat).

As far as I know, the next flags for the Tavricheskiy grenaderskiy polk were awarded in 1824, and were of 1816 pattern.

Widowson13 Mar 2013 5:47 p.m. PST

I wish I knew the language. I have other units (some from the early period, some from 1812-13), for which I need the same info. Hell, everybody building Russian armies needs it.

I suppose we'll have to settle for Viskov., and then run the results by you.

Many thanks,

Bill

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