"FoW: Tour of Duty" Topic

While opinions are like sphincters, everyone has one, but looking to see what folks think of the impending releases for FoW:Tour of Duty.

For a conflict that was not dominated with armor engagements, the initial offerings from BF seems overly stacked with armor (ie. M109, M42A1, T-54, PT-76, etc.). I would have thought ARVN and NVA units a far better choices to launch FoW:ToD.

Good stuff for "other" wars though :-) But yes, I like Force on Force Ambush Valley and would buy Battlefront minis for Vietnam if they had more NVA and ARVN troops

The T-54s look awesome. Great for a lot more than just Vietnam.

Vietnam was not an armored warfare extravaganza, and any game that pretends it was is not Vietnam. It is kind of like giving early war Germans King Tigers just because they want to sell the models.

You'll see more tank on tank action in the first tournament than the 15 years of the war saw. I'd probably try it as an infantry engagement but if this is meant to be Kursk in the jungle I'll have to pass.

I'm looking forward to Aussies, RoKs, and Marvin the ARVN infantry.

While I'm planning on building a Black Horse Cav unit as well as airmobile, I'm really not planning on any armored support for Mister Nathaniel Victor.

Must admit, though, that those PT76s look good.

I think the armor would be great for an AK47 campaign!

If they did FOW: Vietnam as a co-operative game where everyone plays the Allies, I think it might actually do well. But they want to play tournaments. If there ever is a FOW:Vietnam tournament, there sure are going to be a lot of Blue-on-Blue games! I imagine the first FOW:Vietnam tournament will be called "Friendly Fire 2013".

Given the infantry releases are already available, and any new releases are re-tools at best, the release of modern vehicles is welcome.

I would have preferred to have local force troops released earlier, but other than that I am happy!

There were tanks in Vietnam, so it is fine to have them released. If some tourneys are tread trending feasts and someone does not like it (for historicity, for dislike of tanks, for anything), the solution is easy: don't get in those tourneys. Games can always be made without tanks. As several people already pointed out these releases can be a boon for other theaters-games-countries so it is great.

I'm looking forward to Aussies, RoKs, and Marvin the ARVN infantry.

I think you may be disappointed Lion. Although an ARVN weapons platoon plus another support option (can't remember which) are planned, I understand BF intends that US infantry will double for ARVN. Also, so far as I know, there are no specific RoK forces in the pipeline, unless I have missed something.

Yes, there is a lot of armour in the early releases but its no mystery why. Tanks sell and I guess the bottom line dictates that BF's emphasis will be on armour and helicopters.

Vietnam was not an armored warfare extravaganza, and any game that pretends it was is not Vietnam

Sexy armor sells. The great hindrance for the period is that nobody wanted to play the vietnamese.

Why be tyranids when space marines are so much cooler?

I think sales will be good … gamers will buy the armour and use for other periods .

Yep, looking to buy but not play.
I'm on the fence as to whether this will take off as a tournament game, I think it more likely that bf is testing the waters on sales of more modern kit.

1) The rules are meant to sell the figures.

2) There is more profit in selling tanks.

3) We are here to make money.

Dale brings up a good point on "Friendly Fire 2013".

I would be interested in how this is viewed by actual Vietnam veterans.

Vince

Yep it's laughable to make tanks for Vietnam: who would buy them!!

Oh it's seems to have worked OK for Peter Pig. Oh and Old Glory, er Skytrex too, hmm.

Not to mention all the 20 and 28mm companies that make Nam era vehicles!

It's hard to comprehend how the release of new models could be decried as such a bad thing just because people hate the FoW rules so much. Enjoy the new products and ignore the rules if that's your bent. I know I will!

I believe the response to the vehicles has been good. Many people want them for something other than Vietnam.

The idea of gaming big tank battles in Vietnam between the U.S. and PAVN seems to be were some of us have issues.

Vince

As someone who was part of a historical society dedicated to studying and wargaming the actions of the US 25th Infantry Division in Vietnam, I can say the FoW Tour of Duty game is alright….not the best, but alright.

Adapting FoW for Vietnam won't give you those search and destroy missions that were famous and prevalent. The game engine isn't designed for patrolling and you're better off with a skirmish set of rules like FoF.

However, FoW will do you company sized pitched battles. The 25th were the only infantry division to bring its armoured assets to Vietnam and they saw action during their deployment in the South West of South Vietnam from 1966 to 1971 including the invasion of Cambodia. The US Marines used armour in Hue and the ARVN used their M-41s against NVA armour in 1972-75. The Australians brought their Centurions to the conflict and that was the heaviest tank used in Vietnam.

Like I said, FoW Tour of Duty will do you the pitched battles but if you want "classic" Vietnam wargaming then FoF, Charlie Don't Surf or Boys From Company B (Peter Pig) will do you very nicely: The advantage of the Peter Pig rules is that they're for 15mm games so your FoW collection will go with them.

M-41s, 48s, T-54s, Centurions were present in Vietnam and even if pitched tank battles weren't historical, you can't stop players from using them if they're going to do a hypothetical scenario. These vehicles have been modelled way before FoW Tour of Duty.

Wait until we see how many tanks you can field in the lists. Massive great 30 odd tank battles would be silly, but I see nothing wrong with a few a side. Plus those are nice for the whole period outside of Nam'.

What Nazrat said. I don't play FoW but I will buy Tour of Duty nonetheless ("as a resource") and a fair number of the new toys, which I will use with Charlie Don't Surf. It is hard to see the return of FoW Vietnam in anything other than a positive light.

Can't "game" Viet Nam any more than I could game Iraq. The degree of separation is just too small, still too fresh.

As there are now several manufacturers of 1970's Arab/Isreli inf I am happy as I can now do 1967/73 wars in 15mm – that was were my second period of gaming (after WWII) started in 1974. I used kitbashed 1/72nd stuff and airfix figs along with WRG 1950-75.
I am happy to use the stuff and leave the Vietnam thing alone completely

EDIT: Cannot get those rules for free but can get the second edition here
link

In answer to uberbyford's question, the maximum number of tanks you can field in an armoured company is 17.

I have Tropic Lightning (as well as the original WGI articles). Flames works pretty well for the big set-pieces like LZ Xray.

But I also have a platoon single-based for playing Ambush Valley. AV is much better for patrols and S&D missions.

However, BF is smoking something if they think I'm going to buy artillery models without an 'assault the firebase' mission.

Pardon me being thick, is this a stand-alone ruleset or a sourcebook?

If it's like Tropic Lightning, just a sourcebook, you'd still need the Flames of War rulebook to play.

I would like to see an escalation campaign or two for 'Aces', like the Infantry Aces, Tank Aces, and Raiding Aces campaigns.

They give the impression its a rulebook, but it's not unambiguous?

From the back cover photo on the FoW Tour of Duty Preview Page:

"This is a supplement for the Flames of War World War II Miniatures Game."

"A copy of the rule book for Flames of War is necessary to use the contents of this book."

Yeah thanks, Wayland Games' ebulletin on the product clarified that too. Dealbreaker for me, just as with Great War Spearhead

Its not as if there is such a thing as a cheap 2nd hand copy of FoW. (I know it has its haters, but that fact says something for the game – no-one seems to be flooging off copies cheap!)

Shouldn't be too hard to find a copy of the mini rulebook from the Open Fire set.

That's the same free mini rulebook that BF gave to all the owners of 2e hardcover rulebooks.

Saw one of the mini books on Ebay yesterday.

Hopefully this provides a beachhead for BF to do the cold war. Fulda Gap 1985 would be cool.