"Babylon 5: 20 years ago today" Topic

Yes it was on this day 20 years ago Babylon 5 aired the first movie 'The Gathering'. It wasn't until about a year later the TV series began, and sci-fi had something that wasn't a Star Trek or Star Wars derivative.

So how do you feel 20 years later? Still got some B5 miniatures and stuff around?

I still watch the program regularly, usually over a batch of Bagna Cauda. Mine's better than Garibaldi's!

Oh my god…I'm OLD! How the heck did that happen!?!? B5 is still a standard-setting series in my book, only rivaled by the now almost TEN year old BSG series from SyFy.

Why can't SyFy and others produce this quality of programming regularly instead of all the lame arse stuff like "Ark" and such. I mean, Firefly gets pulled, and SyFy put more WWE and lame "Supermega Dino-Octo Crok" stuff in place…

Probably because lame stuff is cheaper to make, and the youngsters like the horror/fantasy/ reality themes.

I have some B5 Micro Machines ships around. I thought about getting some of the wargame miniture ships some years ago but decided my paint jobs wouldn't do them justice.
I have the whole series plus all the movies on DVD.
Here's something I wonder about sometimes. I love science fiction. I have a large collection of movies and books. But I don't play any miniature games involving sci-fi. What's up with that?

Still one of the best Science Fiction Series ever made. Yes the CGI is a bit dated by today's standards but the story is still engaging and full of depth.

Another series that deserves to be mentioned as one of the best Science Fiction series is Farscape which just does not seem to be on many peoples radar. It was and still is one of the most original and satisfying programs to see again. And it holds up very well I might add.

I still have an ACTA earth fleet (shamefully half painted)
.The one opponent I had joined the army ,then moved away to get hitched.Lovely miniatures that I could sneak into a full thrust game I suppose.
If watching an episode on TV for first 5 mins I will end up watching til the end.
Good stuff it was too G.Kar and Londo were great characters.

Excellent series. Too bad so many other SF franchises get all the love. The character arcs in B5 beat then out by a long shot. Having your guys run around for an hour, go through life-changing experiences just to hit the reset button next week (unless the writers feel like looting the ep's corpse for future plots) gets old after a while, and makes the characters stale as hell.

Not that I'm naming names, or anything.

In a couple of weeks, I was planning to watch the whole thing trough for the first time since it aired.

I have a fair amount of the older (bigger) miniatures. Never hit the table, though, none of my friends who watched the series were that into wargaming.

And somewhere I have both the 1st and 2nd edition of B5Wars. (In case you're wondering, 1st edition is mostly fighters, with the occasional large ship to shoot up)

Need more minis, however.

Wow, can't believe it. That is still a great show.

A fun little conversion of Babylon 5 for Struggle of Empires: boardgamegeek.com/image/1478271/struggle-of-empires

boardgamegeek.com/filepage/72270/babylon-5-coming-of-shadows-retheme

Great show …one ot the best Sci fi shows

That is strange to hear seeing as how I just started watching it again (on dvd) just yesterday! I had no idea about the 20 year aniversary so I'm thinking we will need to get spock to calculate those odds!

Must be something in the water that I put in my coffee.

Arrrrgh, 20 years? I feel even older than I usually do. My money for the best SF on TV. I've got big and little fleets for EA, Narn, Centauri, Shadows and Vorlons. Don't play often enough though

Londo Mollari – whadda guy!

I will pull my DVD sets out start the watch them tonight.

Yahoo?

I think you may be able to stream it on Netflix as well. If so I may have to do that or pull out my old VCR tapes I made when it first ran. Oh yea got rid of the VCR. OK yes I am old.

i have nearly every FA scale fleet(only the lame abbai are missing) , including some I sculpted and cast myself(FA-scale drakh and a few other Brakiri ships that had rules but no minis in B5 Wars)

Still one of my favourite series. i wish something would breath new life into it either as a new series(hopefully not shades of Legends of the rangers) or a good video game.

Just watched a episode of B5 last night… and for the first time thought taht the CGi looked dated.

Maybe I should give B5 another chance. I tried to get into it a year or so ago, but after 6 episodes or I couldn't get into it and the CGI felt dated.

I didn't get the same feeling when I started watching Deep Space 9 last month which dates to almost the same years, seems to have better special effects (maybe more miniatures work?) and has kept my attention through a full season and beyond.

Anyone care to convince me why B5 deserves another try?

It can't be that old because I am still 30….

Found it cheesy and tiresome then, find it cheesy and tiresome now.

Of course, tack on "heavy-handed and preachy," and you've got my feelings on Star Trek, or "juvenile and simplistic" for Star Wars.

I did rather enjoy Space: Above & Beyond, though.

…erm, and Stargate: Atlantis, but that's just associative, because my dad was a big fan of it and I ended up watching it with him when he and I both were recovering from some (unrelated) serious medical issues, I swear!

- Monk

B5 was a milestone, I still get creeped by the Shadow battleships carving up the Narn at the end of season 2!

Admit it, you all only watched it for Ivanova…. ;-)

Gads! Has it been that long… Still holds up. The very idea of an ongoing overarching plot arc was shocking then (and still is now). Gonna have to pull out the DVDs tonight.

Anyone care to convince me why B5 deserves another try?

You sort of have to stick through the first season, especially the early part. The lead actor is horrible, and the episode stories tend to be lame, and at times overwritten, but if you pay attention things start to "happen" that imply a much greater story is going on, and the season begins to build. By the end, you'll want to know what's going to happen next, and you'll be hooked. At that point you've entered a big story with lots of twists and unexpected elements, and by the end of it all, everything ties together, even the little clues dropped here and there. It really is a great story.

My wife and I suffered through the early episodes on the recommendation of friends, and wound up getting hooked and enjoying it thoroughly.

Anyone care to convince me why B5 deserves another try?

You sort of have to stick through the first season

Or Better Yet: Skip the First season, and start w/ Season 2.
Derive everything from Context, and then go back and watch season 1 later.

I've often compared season 1 to the Hobbit,
and season 5 to the Silmarrilion (being -very- Generous…).
Seasons 2-3 are the Trilogy.

Zephyr1 22 Feb 2013 2:24 p.m. PST:

"Admit it, you all only watched it for Ivanova…. ;-)"

Yup, you called it right:

YouTube link

@ Zephyr 1

Maybe for a little at first, but found I liked Lyta more ;D

B5 was a space opera in the purest sense, concentrating on strong characterizations and political intrigue more than conflict and war. The Video Toaster-era FX is dated by today's standards of course, but this excellent series based on a futuristic 'United Nations' on a 5-mile long space station still stands as one of the most successful and beloved sci-fi series of all time.

B5 was and remains my all time favourite SF series, although only slightly ahead of the equally defunct Firefly. In my opinion, this series was not easily accessible but required the viewer the show a little patience and allow the story and the characters to develop. Consequently, we have some of the best characters in SciFi in Lando, G'Kar, Garibaldi et al. The sense of approaching menace kept me glued to my seat. It and Firefly remain the only SciFi series that I rewatch on any kind of regular basis. It was interesting to watch the production values change with the series. As Parzival noted, the first series was clearly done on a fairly restricted budget. The effects, makeup and the acting significantly improved as the series aged, much like a decent red wine.

I am a long time historical gamer with little interest in SciFi or fantasy gaming. Nevertheless, I acquired a large collection of very nicely painted ACTA fleets for most of the races which have rarely seen the light of day since Mongoose unexpectedly dropped the range and rules after making bold pronouncements of expansion and remolded ship models. Unfortunately, I bought all the fleets from a gamer who was downsizing his collection just before the bitter end which snuffed out the little interest I had managed to create with some of the local gamers. Since moving houses, my fleets have remained packed away. I have often considered listing them for sale but I promised the original seller that I would always give him right of first refusal. A computer crash wiped out all his contact information and I can't recall his last name.

Anyway, a bloody good series, imho, that gave rise to a fun Sci Fi game with some really cool model ships.

Probably my favorite scifi characters of all time are Londo and G'Kar. G'Kar hates Centauris with a burning passion, but even he likes Londo.

Centauri embassy is throwing a party, and it's proper manners to be barefoot. Londo's wife(?) goes after G'Kar, saying, "You're wearing boots! Do you know how great an insult that is?!?"
G'Kar, nodding: "Oh, yes."
LW starts to screech like the harpy she is…
Londo: "G'Kar! So good of you to come, please, you have got to try this wine I found in my cellar…" utterly not caring that G'Kar is offering an insult worth going to war to the Centauri.

But line of the series goes to Vir, Londo's assistant. "What do I want? What I want, Mr. Morden, is when they mount your head on a pike as a warning to future generations, is to look up at your lifeless face and do this" (smirks and makes this little wave with one hand)

Lion in the Stars,

Thank you for that quote. It was very pleasing to read and I could recall the scene too.

My favorite quote was from the scene with Delenn informing Captain Drake that Babylon 5 was under the protection of the Mimbari. Captain Drake huffed and puffed and threatened with "Do not force us to engage your ship" which Delenn responded with:

"Why not? Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari fleet. He is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else."

I still like the one where Ivanova is trying to hail an alien ship but the seem to ignore her

Great show. It was one that I never missed, set time aside to make sure I could watch it.

Very happy it went 5 years.

Only wish "Firefly" had the same run.

One of the best SF series of all time. Sure, the production values were limited by budget and the tech available in those days, but the performances? And the writing? Magnificent.

I didn't know it was 20th anniversary, but I've been re-watching parts of it.

What makes it especially special is this. Before B5, nobody did serials like that except in the case of miniseries. Everything was either a soap opera or purely episodic. Many, many sci fi shows have tried to mirror B5's "novel on TV" approach, with foreshadowing and story arcs and a story with a message. None have really succeeded.

DS9 and BSG are great examples (both Ron Moore shows). They confused a story arc with a soap opera. In the former, there's an introduction, rising action, climax, and denouement. The overall story is ABOUT something. Both BSG and DS9 instead gave us a soap opera where the writers promised us that we were on a story arc, but never actually delivered one (despite far superior funding and production values). Lost and X-Files made the same promises, and ended up the same way.

What shocks me now is how hard JMS must have worked to get his vision put out there. I could easily see a network demanding that he stretch it out another season. Or cancelling it early, as almost happened. Only the "you're cancelled… psych!" really succeeded in pushing him off-track.

JMS had a pre-written plot, a commitment about when he'd be done, and contingency plans for everything. Very few people in hollywood have the commitment or work ethic to pull that off, and none of those have the talent.

B5 was something special and, so far, unique. I miss it.

I LOVE B5! The writing and universe that JMS created is just incredible. The cast was also very dynamic. Sadly, some of them have passed beyond the rim. B5 in unique in sci-fi series in that it has a complete story line. Yes, there was the A Call to Arms movie and the Crusade series, but these took place after the original 5-year series. And then there's the only turkey of the franchise, Legend of the Rangers, but I digress. I'd gripe about the series not being in syndication, but that's what DVDs are for and I do watch them from time to time. I don't feel the CGI is dated, just wish the space battles were longer. They went too fast. As far as comparing it to other sci-fi shows and movies, all I have to say is I like some and hate others and leave it at that.

AoG's B5 Wars was the main reason I got really hooked on miniature wargaming. Sadly, it took a back seat to my Full Thrust fleets. Once I'm done with them, I am planning on working on my B5 minis. I've always liked the designs of all the different races. Can't pick a favorite, but I am really partial to squadrons of White Stars.

B5 was an awesome series. I remember trying to get the old telly at my fathers childhood home in the village to just show us a grainy black and white picture of it. An engrossing series. I did get a bit tired towards the end (I HATE THE WORD CHOSEN ONE) and have still to watch the post Shadow War era season since the Greek channel that syndicated them dropped them at that point.

The FX were magnificent at the time. I remember AMIGA people were so proud and arrogant when it came out :p To be frank they had a right to do so.

Oh i have Micro machines and some AOG small scale stuff.
I still have CCG (which was great)..

I watch DVDs from time to time, and I watched it whole for more than 3 times

I love Babylon 5 although I did not know it until 1996 or 7 when they started to broadcast it in nationwide TV Poland.

I like scifi, but i have never liked tv shows lke star trek , b5, stargate or farscape; i found them boring. The only exception was firefly.

I grew up on B5. I think its main strength is having one big, well-designed plot for everything, which made it far more interesting than the more episodic TV series which I usually lose interest in. This was the defining piece of sci-fi on television for me. Later shows such as Andromeda did not live up to such a high standard.

I also love the Mass Effect computer games which are quite similar in concept to Babylon 5, and neatly executed at that.

But I also have a warm corner in my heart reserved for Firefly and Space: Above and Beyond.

Babylon 5 was the sci-fi TV show that was with me as I grew up, and it's had a pretty profound impact on my tastes for sci-fi ever since. Love the show, and I have been taking my fiancee through it recently, though I didn't know it was the 20th anniversary!

A favorite scene is the one where the Dilgar war criminal Deathwalker is on the station and the League members are sending ships to demand her extradition. Several show up the same time threatening to use force. Ivanova manages to convince them to hold off, and when asked how she did the reply is to the effect of "I started an argument over which of their worlds suffered the most from Deathwalker and deserves to put her on trial. When they decide that, I'll suppose they'll attack".

-Will

I feel SO old today!

Trying to convince my better half to watch the series with me.

B5 was okay.

I enjoyed Space: Above and Beyond when it first came out, too. Then I wondered why all of these flight officers kept gettig infantry missions. Sort of ruined it. Still, the bit when MacQueen goes after the Chiggie von Richtofen is good.

Loved the McQueen vs Chiggie von Richtofen battle. You can still watch it on youtube.
YouTube link

But his comments before that duel were just as awesome.
YouTube link

The fight Ivanova had against the group of raider fighters would have been equally as awesome, but for some reason they decided not to CGI what could have been one hell of a furball.

I'm with Hobbybox – jeezus am I that old?

Apparently so.

For me, the show has never been bettered. Sure the graphics look a bit rough by the standards of Battlestar reimaginingsbut it as the enormous advantage of having an actual plot rather than something the writers just made up the week before (whilst telling everyone it had a story arc…).

As it's the ONLY SciFi my Mrs will watch*, we just rewatched it from front to back, missing only the spin off series Crusade (largely awful – even the film pilot was lame) and the equally dreadful 'Legends of the Rangers' but including Lost Tales and al the other films.

Interesting seeing how nice the CGI is in even a low budget item like Lost Tales.

Is it time for a Trek style 'replace all the CGI work with something else newer?

Probably not the market for it…

For me the only thing that came even close in the last 10 years was Frirefly and (as we all know) that got canned and then sown up with a sub-par film.**

B5 Still rules.

John T

* Second time for her, probably the fifth or sixth time for me

** Serenity wasn't actually bad but had been so 'already done' in the last episodes it was pointless IMHO

Second the recommendation of Farscape. Great dialog and characters.

Dave

My Sunday wargame group would arrive early enough to watch B5, then talk about it, then play our wargame (while still talking about it) then talk about it while we picked up, then have dinner and talk about it.

20 years later, we're still talking about it.

(And for anyone who missed my Ragesh 3 B5 post from two weeks ago:
link )

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