"Rather Bad Form, eh wot?" Topic

This isn't a rant and not even much of a complaint, per se, but I was definitely put off by the treatment I received from a wargaming company these past few days.

I purchased a used game from a fellow gamer recently, I went through it (briefly) upon arrival and was very happy with it. The other day I finally had a chance to go through it in detail and found…no rules. ACK!

So I contacted the seller and he's looking for the rules. Fair enough.

I then contacted the manufacturer, over in the UK, explained that I had bought the game used, from a 3rd party and asked if they would be kind enough to provide me with either a .pdf or Word doc of the rules.

I received a reply the next day, asking who I bought the game from. Since I'd already informed them that it was used and from a 3rd party, I just told them it was from a fellow TMP'er.

No reply for 24 hours, so I wrote back, re-sent my original query and added that if they didn't want to send me the rules, that was fine, but at least have the courtesy to reply and inform me as such.

Silence for another business day (I'd sent both messages during the evening so they would be waiting in the company Email inbox first thing in the UK AM).

Again, I bought the game used, the company is not obligated to do anything…I got it.

However, as a company, if a potential customer contacts me with a request of this type, wouldn't proper manners and in an attempt to gain a loyal customer, behove the company to:

1) Inform me politely that, "Gee Whiz, we're sorry to hear about that but it is customer policy for us not to give out our exclusive rules freely, but if you ever do buy direct from us in the future, we will send a copy of the missing rules to you".

OR

2) Thanks for buying our game, even if used, from a third party. We're sorry to hear about your problems and attached is a copy of the rules. We just want to state that these rules are for your personal use only, you cannot share them. However, if you like the game, we would love to read your comments on <insert name of site here>.

But to just ignore a request…that's a great way to lose customers.

As you've probably noticed, I'm being a gentleman and not providing the name of the company, but it'll be a cold day in hell before I purchase anything from them in the future, especially a quick and easy unpack and play gladitorial combat game.

You know, sometimes it's just not feasible for folks in this industry to get back to people in 24 or 48 hours. There seems to be a general expectation these days of instantaneous and somewhat slavish customer service that I don't think is necessarily reasonable. I think you're over-reacting a bit.

Doug

I've got to agree with elsyrsyn. Expecting a reply within 24 hours isn't necessarily unreasonable, but neither is taking two or three days to reply.

Doug,

While you are basically correct you will notice that they did get back to him the first time within 24 hours. Given the timeline they don't even have the "weekend" excuse.

could be the guy answering the emails has bucked it up to his Boss to see what to do… who is dilly dallying over what to do

Or the Boss has a number of things on his plate and this one is in the queue with the others.

Wow, a whole day without a response? Bastards.

Actually 48 hours plus without a reply.

You mean you wanted them to just send you a free copy of their rules? You wanted them to print it off put it in the mail and send it to you. All within 24 hours? Or scan in the text which may not be in a digital format and send that to you? You didn't even offer to pay for the time and effort that it might take for them to do this, why are they obligated to send you anything? Why they even obligated to respond. What are you expecting the TMP community to do?

You wanted soemthing they normally sell, for free, and they did not get back to you within 48 hours?
Hanging is too good for em

You sound like one of my customers

What game is that? You could go to BoardGameGeek.Com and ask the folks there, or if you're lucky, there's rules in the files section of the game page.

I believe Mr. Preziosi asked for a soft copy of the rules. So much stuff like this is done on the computer nowadays, that I don't think it is unreasonable to ask, since it would only take a few additional clicks to attach the document and send it back. Of course, this is a small industry, and the rules may not be available in soft copy for any number of reasons. I can understand that it may take more than 24 hours, for a number of reasons. I can also see that the company might not want to send out aa copy: perhaps it is only available in hard copy and they have no scanning equipment, maybe it was written in Word Perfect and they don't know how to translate it, maybe it just isn't company police. Whatever--they do owe Mr. Preziosi an answer.

I see they asked who he got the game from. If his failing to provide the name is a problem, they should say so. Maybe some weasel in Florida is selling counterfeit copies and they want to track them down. Just explain--he might be willing to help out.

Grelber

Dear Foundry.
I bought 10 SYW Prussian Dragoons from a guy on eBay, but my rules require a minimum of 12. Can you send me the two missing ones that I need?

Dear Games Workshop

I bought a bargain used Island of Blood starter set. The rule book is missing. Courier one to me immediately.

I agree with Andrew. It seems many companies will happily supply an email address but when it comes to actually responding to a concern, well, they're not so fast all of a sudden.

Actually, GW sent me a brand-spanking new copy of the Warhammer Quest Campaign book after I bought a used copy of Quest.

Granted, the copy did have a book — the problem was a mis-binding and it was missing 20 pages (and had a duplicate 20), and I'd only asked for a copy of the 20 — so it's not quite the same problem.

I would not expect to buy anything used and have the manuacturer mail me something that was missing. You are basically telling them you are too cheap to be an actual customer. And then you don't even offer to pay them for shipping or anything. I think you are really asking a lot.

I would say depends. I have always had pleasant experience in dealing with manufacturers (Avalanche, Lock N Load, GMT, Compass and also Critical Hit). If something was missing from a copy bought new they replaced. Sometime they did not even answered me but something showed in my mail (physical) box few days later. If I bought used it was a bit more difficult. But Critical Hit sent me my missing company for Advanced Tobruk the first time I ordered something direct. Yet I usually allow people one week before complaining about lack of response. I think Andrew reaction is a bit to extreme.

We expect answers a bit too early these days.

Asking for a free set of rules is pretty out there, IMO. How is providing said set going to earn the company a customer? A customer would have actually bought the game from them!

If I bought a book used that was missing it's dust jacket, could I write the publisher and ask for another?

It's possible that they have never had a request like this before and are pondering the implications of saying yes or saying no. Precedents can be very dangerous things!

This is interesting. We are the company Andrew is talking about and I'm the person he dealt with. I replied to his first query instantly. Then a day of real-life issues intervened. Then, when I settled down to catch up on email, I found what I considered to be an unnecessarily "snarky" mail from Andrew. I held back from replying for a while (I usually do this if an immediate reply would probably have me saying something I may later regret).

This morning (and I must emphasise BEFORE I saw this thread), I emailed him with what I hope was a polite suggestion that he had assumed the worst rather too quickly, considering he was looking for a freebie. I attached the rules he wanted, made some suggestions about how he could replace the counters if he hadn't got them, directed him to the supporting Yahoo group and hoped that he'd enjoyed the game.

After seeing this thread, I'm now wondering if I was perhaps too understanding….

Doug

link

Doug em4miniatures – you didn't send him a gift voucher for his next purchase ? What kinda cheap-skate company you-all got going there anyhows ?

Doug em4miniatures:

Above and beyond the call of duty!

funny thing…

it started as a complain against a manufacturer end up as negative for the customer. By the way I agree with Doug that the second e-mail was a bit snarky. I have published a game for ATO, I am always monitoring the folder on CSW to answer questions, sometime I do not check every day because I have other things to do (teaching, doing stuff away from home, being at sea… moving between UK and Italy) and in one case I think someone complained the designer did not answered promptly… I think he was out for two days working without Internet access. I am starting to dislike Internet and the expectation of immediate response.

Doug I really need a Mercedes Benz………….

"Dear Games Workshop

I bought a bargain used Island of Blood starter set. The rule book is missing. Courier one to me immediately."

What you meant to say was, Dear GW I bought island of Blood and there does not seem to actually be a game included…

Reply to the mans Email and send him his rules. End of story…

Reply to the mans Email and send him his rules. End of story…

Did you actually read my post above?

Doug

Well,

Now that I have EGG on my face…it behooves me to apologize, at once.

Which I DO…both to everyone here and to Doug at Em4 Miniatures!

In my defence though…I didn't rant, I really didn't complain, nor did I drag the company's name through the mud.

So, before you call out the firing squad, at least take that into account.

I explained everything in my first post and won't rehash it here.

Again though, my apologies to everyone involved and concerned with this matter.

I'll go drag myself off into exile as penance for awhile.

> If I bought a book used that was missing it's dust jacket, could I write the publisher and ask for another?

Yes you could. They will probably say no, but you can ask.

Well,

Now that I have EGG on my face…it behooves me to apologize, at once.

Which I DO…both to everyone here and to Doug at Em4 Miniatures!

In my defence though…I didn't rant, I really didn't complain, nor did I drag the company's name through the mud.

So, before you call out the firing squad, at least take that into account.

I explained everything in my first post and won't rehash it here.

Again though, my apologies to everyone involved and concerned with this matter.

I'll go drag myself off into exile as penance for awhile.

Andrew – that's a big call – thanks for making it; I respect your decision to do so.

But please – don't go and do penance. Go and play Ludus Gladiatorius and hopefully enjoy it.

And now, I'm off to do some casting so don't anyone expect any email replies from me for the next few hours…

Doug

If I were the manufacturer I wouldn't send this guy anything. His issue is with the person he bought the package from. 'Dear Mr Ford, just purchased a used car of yours and the engine is missing. Please send one as soon as possible.' Huh?

Your a class act Doug.

Here endeth the lesson.

Now go write a review of the game.

Actually, I'm going to check the Em4 Website to see if I can p/u a few more minis…a couple of animals or some such.

A gentle reminder, I approached this from situation from a "board wargaming" set of mind, where many companies are(generally) happy to provide rules for free.

I forgot that I was dealing with miniature game designers/manufacturers and that the approach is rather different.

Again, my apologies.

If you guise want, I can post a picture of myself here so you can download it for use as either a new target cover for your dart-board game…or a lovely target next time you drag your blunderbuss to the shooting range. •

Did you actually read my post above

Not really, sorry.

My point it is no big deal. I would offer to pay you for the rules if I was in similar situation so I could have a complete game.

This is interesting. We are the company Andrew is talking about and I'm the person he dealt with. I replied to his first query instantly. Then a day of real-life issues intervened. Then, when I settled down to catch up on email, I found what I considered to be an unnecessarily "snarky" mail from Andrew. I held back from replying for a while (I usually do this if an immediate reply would probably have me saying something I may later regret).

This morning (and I must emphasise BEFORE I saw this thread), I emailed him with what I hope was a polite suggestion that he had assumed the worst rather too quickly, considering he was looking for a freebie. I attached the rules he wanted, made some suggestions about how he could replace the counters if he hadn't got them, directed him to the supporting Yahoo group and hoped that he'd enjoyed the game.

After seeing this thread, I'm now wondering if I was perhaps too understanding….

Doug

Read it now. basically what I understood. You did nothing wrong. Try and help if you can't, it is what it is.

like I said, I would pay for the rules or follow the instructions and try and get them from another person if I cannot afford them. This is on guy, one day, one situation. Life sometimes gets in the way.

Life sometimes gets in the way….

of stupid requests (aka demands).

In my defence though…I didn't rant, I really didn't complain,

You kinda did.

Doug Rocks…..nuff said!

wow, I guess the customer (or non customer in this case) is always right.