"WFB vs War of the Ring" Topic

I have played WFB for ages ever since 2d ed. I also bought and played the LOTR miniature game and have more figures than is needed to really play that game. So I have been thinking of getting War of the Ring but wanted to know how it compares to the LOTR rules in terms of mechanics, i.e. does it use the same kind of profiles for the miniatures, and then how does it compare in game play to WFB. Which would you prefer or does one not need to buy War of the Ring if you already have the LOTR game rules.

Thanks

Do you have the Alamo book for Legends of the Old West?

I only watched one WotR game but as it was explained to me it was basically the same thing as the Alamo was to LotOW. Someone else might know better than me but the stats seemed to be the same and it just had rules for how massed combat worked.

If it were me, overall, I think I'd use Hail Caesar. :)

I like WotR. I played a lot of the SBG when it came out and wanted to game the larger battles. This allows to game the big ones and still have some battlefield effect when you put the leaders out there. The stats are similar and if you have played the SBG you will get the hang of it quickly. I think it is best though for recreating battles and not for tourney play. The lists all seem to have some holes in them that tourney players like to maximise.

Pictors,

Has anyone posted good LOTR stats for Hail Caesar? I find Black Powder and Hail Ceaeser to be brilliantly fun rules.

I think if you just look at the stats in Hail Caesar you can find troop equivalents. At that point it is just a matter of nudging this up or that down to make them more like the troops you want.

For example:

Riders of Rohan

C 8 S 5 SR 3 LR 3 SV 5+ Stam 6 Marauders option: feigned flight, parthian shot

Black orc infantry.

C 7 S 7 SR 3 LR 0 SV 4+ stam 6 Steady, tough fighters May add Wild Fighters

orc infantry

C 6 S 6 SR 3 LR 0 SV 5+ stam 6 tough fighters

Hmmm…interesting ideas there Pictor.

I've been using HC for fantasy games recently and my impression is just as Pictors said: a very adaptable system.

So far we haven't added in any really exotic troop types – nothing that flies, for example, but in a LoTR setting that would be pretty minimal anyway.

The only other thing to consider is that there are no points values (in the core rules anyway), so you have to put some planning into scenarios if you want balance. So far with my bunch we haven't gotten very sophisticated about it yet. My impression is that a 1-point difference in the stats does often make a difference in the unit's performance, but it's not a foregone conclusion which way a fight will go. Last game we had some trash units of goblins hanging on way longer that we expected, and some better units falling apart quickly. A lot depends on rolls…

How would you handle magic?

While my initial question was related to War of the Ring and WFB I think I am now considering getting HC.

WOTR is supposed to be a good game, from all the accounts I've read. The only problem with it is the army lists. They are completely unbalanced with huge holes in them. I have them, but have yet to get a game in. I will be taking them out for a spin soon, as SBG is good, but I want bigger battles.

On a huge LOTR kick, Xin

I will also be giving HC a look as well. Thanks for the tip.

Xin

Use the War of the Ring multibase units with Kings of War rules. Giant games with tactical depth with a very short play time.

I liked wotr and yes the lists are broke.
There are also the usual GW bus sized holes in the rules.
Pretty much nobody took them up here though.

Modifying Hail Caesar is an interesting thought.

Another vote for Kings of War. They do basically the same things as WHFB and WotR, but they do it faster and cleaner.

One thing I like about War of the Ring is its "defensible terrain" rules. Basically, units don't move inside terrain features, they occupy whole features when they move into them. This makes for good game drama.

This is one point where Kings of War falls short: the building rules are utter nonsense, the obstacle rules are dumb, and the siege rules not too good either. I'm happy to pay $20 USD to thank the company for an otherwise free rulebook, but I'm not particularly happy with the "extra" rules.

Ok I will take a look at Kings of War. That is the Manic game correct?

Pigasuspig, right on. Saturday, we played a 2-player 3600 points per side game, with over 1200 models, in under two hours. An excellent gaming experience. Everything you mentioned about the building, obstacle, and siege rules is true and we are going to have to eventually apply house rules to those.