"Alt. sources for 25/28mm Roman grain/trade ships?" Topic
15 Posts
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Come In Nighthawk | 11 Feb 2013 11:15 a.m. PST |
I admit it, I am cheap
errr, furgal! That's FRUGAL Baldrick
not "furgal!" Yes my lord
Ok, or at least I try to be frugal! So, before I plunk down well or $100 USD, incl. shipping "across the pond," I would like to know if anyone knows of a good model of a typical swan-necked stern-post Roman grain/trade ship, besides the one sold by Grand Manner? Now from its photo on their website the GM ship looks very nice. But I don't think I have seen a review of it here at TMP????? If I have missed any such review here about, its probably because I am pretty lousy at selecting keywords for searches
Anyone kind enough would NOT hurt my feelings by giving me the link(s) to such reviews here @ TMP (or on any blog)!! OR
by giving me the link(s) to any reviews of competitors of GM's who offer a decent model of a 25/28mm Roman grain/trade ship!! |
Come In Nighthawk | 12 Feb 2013 1:54 p.m. PST |
Like one of these
Somebody??? |
poiter50 | 12 Feb 2013 7:10 p.m. PST |
Thought there was an article on how to scrathbuild one in an old Airfix mag or book/guide. Sorry, don't know which one. |
BigRedBat | 13 Feb 2013 3:55 a.m. PST |
Maybe convert a plastic cogge? |
Come In Nighthawk | 18 Feb 2013 2:19 p.m. PST |
Maybe convert a plastic cogge? Well, its a thought. In fact I have once or twice thought about Old Glory's "Merchant Cog." It has that way-out-of-scale/proportion center-line rudder under a long overhanging stern. If the rudder were dremelled away, along with the "bowsprit," and a new stem post and twin steering oars fitted, it might start to look a bit more "ancient." I'd still have to find a swan's neck
All that said, if you note in the illustration I found (above), the stern of the grain ship shown is very bulbous or "bluff," as with the bow. Those ships were designed not to be so much "fast" as to carry as much tonnage (in a modern sense) as possible. Depending on whose numbers you use, there were anywhere from 500,000 to 1,000,000 useless, leeching, unproductive mouths to feed in Rome, sucking the life's blood out of the rest of the empire!!!! That's a lot of Sicilian, North African, and Egyptian grain to have to shift to Ostia each autumn to feed all those parasites for another year!! |
Tankboy1972 | 19 Feb 2013 4:02 a.m. PST |
I'd have a look round at what there is available and then buy the GM one, for a couple of reasons, first, i'd like to support a company who bothered to produce "low volume" items like i bet this ship is, by buying them/it your helping to make sure new products you also might like get made. And second, they have 20% off in the sale till the 22nd of this month. |
BigRedBat | 19 Feb 2013 5:38 a.m. PST |
The GM model IS rather lovely
. |
Come In Nighthawk | 19 Feb 2013 6:00 a.m. PST |
And second, they have 20% off in the sale till the 22nd of this month. Not only did I finally "cave" and take advantage of their "20% off" sale, but I was shocked, SHOCKED to find gambling going on
errr, wrong film allusion
I placed my order on 12th February and was shocked to find it on my door step courtesy of UPS yesterday late-afternoon (18th February!)!!!!. I don't get that kind of turn-around on an order from vendors located right here state-side usually
If I have any complaint, its that there aren't printed instructions in the box. That said, even the grain ship (yup, got one) is fairly intuitive, so I am sure I will manage. Got myself a little "trade fleet." 1x LR48, Grain Ship (aka "swan neck trade ship")*** 1x LR46, small trade ship 1x LR81, small sailing boat** 1x LR44, small rowing boat** LR46, the small trade ship, is meant as a coastal vessel, I guess?? Its not exactly like models I've seen in the museum of London for small coastal or riverine trading boats
** LR44 & LR81 are practically identical hulls of about 7 & 1/2 inches (19.5 cms) in length. The sailing boat has a slightly raised "quarter deck" where the master and steersman should stand (if a crew had been provided -- they're not), and a slightly raised fore-deck. It also has a small "step" amidships for the mast to be inserted into. The rowing boat omits those, but has holes in its side for oars to be thrust through. No oars are provided with the boat, however (NB: you'll probably have to drill out some of the latter -- or at least I am going to have to do that on a couple holes on mine, as they are part-filled with resin). *** The "cargo" provided for the "swan neck trade ship" are actually several palettes of wine or oil amphora, not grain sacks. I think I've read somewhere that the Romans did have at least one type of amphora in which grains were shipped -- probably as it seems reasonable to me that it would take the rats longer to gnaw though the pottery than through gunny sacks!! That therefore would make the weight-loss to the carrying-tonnage on the ship due to the extra weight of pottery worth it in the end in weight of grain actually delivered at Ostia (instead of ending up in rats' bellies). I also decided to bite the bullet and "combine shipping" and plopped down the extra denarii for a small army bridge set
1x LR45, engineer bridge boat 1x LR17, Roman trade barge (sic) 2x LR15, Roman bridge – timber end ramp 1x LR16, Roman bridge – timber span The engineer boat is actually adequately pictured on the GM website. It still does not come with the scorpion bolt-shooter or crew they talk about. I'm wondering if when they finally do that if they will sell the scorpion and crew separately as well, for folks like me to "back fill?" The "trade barge" is NOT adequately illustrated. I was fascinated to find it turned out to be nearly the same vessel as the engineer boat. It has an open prow instead of an enclosed one with fighting platform on the engineer boat, and it comes with a sort of trestle "platform" that you set into the center of the boat, onto which you can rest a bridge span. I can see how if you took that out you could stow cargo in the vessel; hence the name given to it?? However, it would have to be towed up-river or along the coast as there are neither oar-holes drilled in its side nor provision if the trestle is omitted for a mast & sail. I guess the engineer boat could tow one or more -- it DOES have several oar-holes drilled into its sides (but like the rowing boat, no oars are provided)
Overall, I'm happy with the vessels straight out of the box. These are kits though, so we'll see if I am still happy when I finish gluing together each of them requiring assembling!! |
poiter50 | 19 Feb 2013 7:25 p.m. PST |
I emailed GM before placing the order and got crew as a separate purchase. IIRC there were 2 or 3 figures and some of the Crusader Roman engineers might suit as well (or the Foundry Civilians). Orion does a set of "slave" type crew for a fighting galley in 1/72. I have been tempted to get these but have resisted as I only have a Playmobil Roman galley. |
Come In Nighthawk | 19 Feb 2013 7:32 p.m. PST |
I emailed GM before placing the order and got crew as a separate purchase. Crew for the "Engineer Boat??" |
Eclipsing Binaries | 20 Feb 2013 3:21 a.m. PST |
Pictures please, please, please!! |
Come In Nighthawk | 20 Feb 2013 12:13 p.m. PST |
Pictures please, please, please!! As quick as I am able, I will post a review "straight from the shipping box" on my new war-gaming blog and post a short note on the Ancients Products page with a link
Watch this space
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poiter50 | 21 Feb 2013 12:42 a.m. PST |
Crew for the "Engineer Boat??" More a generic crew for the boats. |
Come In Nighthawk | 21 Feb 2013 1:06 p.m. PST |
Crew for the "Engineer Boat??" More a generic crew for the boats. And
just playing a hunch; did they turn out to be Foundry EIR "Auxiliary" figures?? |
Come In Nighthawk | 09 Mar 2013 9:47 a.m. PST |
I should update this to note that I ORDERED "1x LR81, small sailing boat." It was OOS, and I have just learned in an email exchange that, rather than hold up my order, GM substituted "1x DA43, Viking Trading boat," but sans trade goods and crew. The DA43 "crew" are apparently the Viking "crew" sold by Gripping Beast (I guess GM & GB have a trade agreement), so IF I wanted to, that crew would be easy enough to acquire. Not sure about the "trade goods." However, for right now it doesn't matter. The vessel "looks" enough like some artists' renderings I seem to remember seeing in the Roman London section at the Museum of London that I will use it for an "English Channel" trader
for now
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