"Looking for Thirty Years war Rules" Topic

Hi all
I know that this topic has been discussed before but i couldn't find anything recent.
I am looking for a rule set designed for the Thirty Years War.
That said, i would love to find something as historically accurate as possible BUT played with elements or stands, i.e. NOT with a man to figure ratio (e.g. one miniature represent 30 men and so on).
I would like to check out Field of Glory but the fact that the combat is resolved by rolling bucketloads of dice Warhammer 40Kstyle (which is a fine fantasy game in its own respect) just puts me off big time.
I've seen that Father Tilly is used a lot but based on what TMP user DanielS said in a previous post TMP link
i think i'll pass.
I also wouldn't choose any rule set that says "Fast Play" on its cover. I hate that everytime i see it. I don't have unlimited spare time but i value realism and depth pore than using something as an excuse to put my miniatures on the table and move them around.
Looking forward to your suggestions

What exactly do you want simulated from TYW? And at what level of command?

I'm looking to simulate pitched battles in general, either small or big ones. I'm not looking for a skirmish system.
I suppose that the ideal level would be having battalions as manoever elements.

Warfare in the Age of Discovery, perhaps?

That is a start? May I poke a bit more?

What exactly from a pitched battle do you want to simulate more and what are you indifferent too?

For example do you want to simulate the battle at the level of of the over commander? In which case you are looking for an element Brigade based game and you might lose some of the smaller battles.

Or do you want to also face regimental decisions?

Are you interested in tactical minutiae like what formations regiments have?

How much fog of war do you want? Regiments and Brigades doing their own thing? Or complete control?

Sorry if this seems like I am being obtuse but I think this may help you find the system that works best for your needs.

But on the large tactical level with elements give a try to Polemos ECW. Yes not TYW but you may be able to port it or find a modification.

If you want a lot of detail take a look at the Perfect Captains rules for the eraly 17th century. Again not perfect but may give ideas for what you want and maybe there are mods out there

The Anchor of Faith supplement by Piquet has TYW section that works well. An example of the system from an October game is on my blog…while the battle is Swedes vs. Poles, it features a TYW Swedish army and the rules are basically the same.

link

Pike & Shotte?

Jaz
Http://6sided.net

No worries KTravlos, at the moment i could use any help or hint towards the right direction. The priblem is that the TYW is a period i am not very familiar with, both on a historical and gaming level :)
Yes i would love to have the role of the overall commander but i wouldn't like to move brigade elements. Tactical minutiae and regimental formations is closer to what i'm looking for.
As for command and control, i would like to see something that allows me to control units when far away from the enemy but becoming difficult as they become engaged. A historical command structure would also be welcome.
That's all i think.

You might take a look at Ga Pa. It's written for GNW and WSS, but there is a free download on the site for modification for TYW: link

I haven't tried them for TYW, but have been using them for WSS and they have some of the features you are asking for in terms of command. I've written a couple of blog posts describing the rules so far:
battleoframillies.wordpress.com

I wouldn't describe FogR as buckets of dice. Typically it is 2dice per front rank base(not specified as that, but that's what it comes to), often losing 1/3 or 1/2 the dice depending on how much disruption the unit has. So 6 for a foot unit, falling as combat continues.

I really like them for fighting the type of battles you describe.

Pike & Shotte is definitely fun to play, low-treshold and suitable for large up to enormous battles.

There is a modification of Ga Pa for TYW?!?
Jesus! I had completely forgotten that and to think i have already started a Great Northern War project based on Ga Pa.
I found Ga Pa to be quite nice based on what i've seen from reports although i've never played a full game yet.
I really liked its command rules, although i have come up with a few house rules to add features i thought should be there.
All in all it is a good system and carries the feeling of the era. Thanks idontbelieve it.
Highlandbevan i've heard some good things abot FOG but i stil can't come to terms with this kind of combat. It is the reason i don't like I Aint Been Shot Mum by Too Fat Lardies. I'll give it a read though.
I also have to thank everyone for their suggestions you really shed some light where i was completely blind….and forgetful :)

You could look at using GMT's Musket and Pike series rules although hex based it could be converted. Rules are available on line at their website in the living rules section.

" gmtgames.com "

Site has been down this weekend but should be available soon.

FoG:R ?

I took part in a FOGR refight of Lutzen yesterday, just under 2000 pts per side. The chaps who planned the game and know a lot more about the TYW than I do were delighted at how the game turned out. A bloody draw which was about right apparently, although Gustavus and Pappenheim survived.

Why not Pike and Shotte from Black Powder?

Victory without Quarter
see link

Alex

I have recently started playing FOGR and do not find it to be "buckets of dice" [I suspect no more actual dice are thrown in a game than DBR].

The game Vespasian28 mentioned worked very well [unfortunately I could not partake as I was previously booked to run a 1944 game]and with FOGR "looked" right for the period.

Kelvin

I think a lot of the rules have the same problem Daniel S mentioned for Father Tilly. I personally am looking at Father Tilly 3, which was the last of the free versions (may still be available on the Yahoo group), avoiding the math calcs of the earlier versions and being a bigger game scale than the current version. The current version is also more figure based, rather than element based (FT3 can be either). FT3 also lets you play with unit strengths, so that may solve some of the issues Daniel raised – if you can find the reference material in English.

Highly recommend Peter Pig's Regiment of Foote, we played the battle of Breitenfeld with success. they are written for the English Civil war so a few home rule tweeks are needed. The Yahoo page has some rule revisions worth checking out.
link

George Gush's Renaisannce Warfare

Fogr is my fave game at the moment, you should give it a try. The Lutzen game mentioned above was one of 2 fogr games played at our club last weekend. With the same protagonists i played a 900 pt game which was fun, challenging and felt "right".

A free ECW set at runtus.org

Perhaps "Father Tilly" might work as a decent set of rules.

Wow. 12 rulesets so far and it's not even a very popular period.

The Hive at its finest!

I think TYW is gaining momentum as a period. Immmore interested in Great Italian Wars, myself.

Around half the members of my club have tyw stuff orare happy to play it. I am just joining the throng….

This is a rather late post but Pike Hack the road to Dunbar meets the specifications of the OP. I just picked them up and haven't played them but I have read through them and I am so far impressed with how they are laid out.

Its got to be said, you can never go wrong with DBR

"Pike & Shotte".