"Looking for pre-dreads naval rules for scifi twist" Topic

Cross-posted to Spaceship because 'realistic' space combat is closest to Naval combat pre-aircraft.

You can see the enemy coming from half the ocean away, but your guns barely reach 10,000m. "Fighters" are wildly impratical, but slightly larger craft with multiple crew ("torpedo boats") make sense in the 'littorals' of congested orbits.

I've played Seapower a time or two, not totally a fan. But what else is out there?

the Ben King fast play naval series are fun and very easy to pick up. They use the same system for pre-Dread and WW1 with a few twits and updated ship lists. Here's an overview of the WW1 version "Dreadnought"

link

I sell the pre-dread version right here:

You want "Sides of Steel."

Space 1889: Ironclads and Etherflyers?

Leviathans?

Are you looking for a different twist? Expanding on what you want to twist and what you think you need might get people to examine assumptions and offer better suggestions.

Well Steel Dreadnought Games produces Naval Thunder which does stretch back to the pre-dreadnought era. But they also produce Colonial Battlefleet for spaceship battles, just drop the fighter rules, which is easy if using the tech level rules, and it should be just what your after. The games are different but from what Harry (the designer) has posted on the web there was quite a bit of behind the scenes cross over in concepts, for example the design rules are slanted to encourage main guns in turrets but secondary weapons in broadside arcs deliberately to produce the same sort of weapon distribution you got on naval battleships.

Robert

If I understand what you're after, Grand Fleets from Majestic 12 is probably spot on:

link

Amongst other things, the game engine behind it is shared with Iron Stars, which is Edwardian era starship combat:

mj12games.com/ironstars

At the risk of sounding sarcastic, Battle Fleet Gothic might suit you – though you will have to ignore the fighter rules.

Ironclads and Ether Flyers would work well for this.

I also highly recommend Iron Stars!

A third vote for Ironclads and Ether Flyers!

Full Thrust, I think there is a .pdf available of the early version/s. Much in the vein of the Fletcher Pratt & Fred Jane naval rules, tick off the box damage, limited weapon ranges, simple written orders for movement next turn. More recent versions have some additional missile type weapons with pre-plotted multi-turn movement.

Battle Fleet Gothic. If you want you can also try my experimental really simple and a-historical rules that I created for my cousins. Just PM me.

1889 was said before… But it is the best for this topic!

Interesting idea; setting aside my Full Thrust fanboy-ism, which is tempered by how much I'd just as soon drop fighters…

Have you seen the Great War at Sea board game series? Not sure the battle system would do for you, but the 'meta-game' might.

Mongoose's Victory at Sea had the Age of Dreadnoughts book, and that could be used standalone. Not beloved by most naval players, but I think has possibilities for this.

I love the feel of Ironclads and Ether Flyers (Space 1889), but there are two different venues: Ironclads (surface) and what's oft called 'Nefs (aerial).

If you go the latter direction, there's Wessex's Aeronefs, which has only a nod at height, unless you use David Manley's expansions.

And has delicious similarities to, wait for it, Full Thrust. ;->=

Doug

Avalanche Press' Great War at Sea is the best thing for 'Vic/Eddy'-era strategic sea ops. I have most of them, they even have Zepps and worldwide Cruiser systems. Quality is high, they are pricey but they do have sales.They also do a LOT of hypothetical scenarios and campaigns.

avalanchepress.com

Yes, please expand on your twist. Ironstars from MJ12 is basically Aeronef or Leviathans in space. Has some slightly more complex rules than those two.

You could also do this with Starmada Nova. Has options for using "aether" movement.

-Tim

The reason I want predread (or at least pre-ww2) is that is the closest existing model for semi-realistic spacecraft combat.

No fighters, torpedo boats for work in the congested orbits, no stealth (or everyone has equivalent levels), and you can see your opponent a long way before they're within gun range.

Though Full Thrust can meet most of those concepts…

More like all of them, if that's what you're after. Just don't use fighters and Full Thrust does everything you want.

Why not the "benchmark" WW1 rules, General Quarters 2?

It keeps record keeping trim, and you could modify the "to hit" chart to suit.

@Covert: Battlefleet Gothic really struck me as Hornblower in Speeeeeeeehs!, with all the broadside maneuvering.

I'll take a look at GQ2, and see if I can remember which box I stuck my FT books in…

@Covert: Battlefleet Gothic really struck me as Hornblower in Speeeeeeeehs!, with all the broadside maneuvering.

It plays much more like a hybrid of WW2 naval with Age of Sail in practice. Torpedo spreads and bomber strikes combined with (mostly) broadside gunnery.

You might also try A Sky Full of Ships if you want something with a bit of a General Quarters feel. Lower detail but good for very large battles. Full Thrust is normally downloadable free through GZG's site but he's having server issues, so this fan mod site is the next best alternative:

link

The Special Order Dice felt as if they could go either as AoS or Pre-Dread, but the advanced rules for Ramming were all Pre-Dread.

And, we all know how that worked out. ;->=

Doug