"It is Richard III" Topic

Apologies if this duplicates another message. Archaeologists confirm the Leicester bones are indeed those of England's last Plantagenet king … link

Mercurius
The Pike and Shot Society

What a spoiler! I was looking forward to the TV programme tonight.

No spoiling was intended :( I had assumed it was appropriate news content to share.

M

That is pretty cool news.

Thatīs great news, especially coming on the heels of the buried Spitfires disappointment.

Excellent news. Looking forward very much to seeing more of the evidence in detail.

Arrangements for his re-interrment yet to be confirmed – but I'd like to be there. I hope there will be enough samples kept above ground should retesting ever be necessary, and that full 3D scans of the skeleton will have been made.

But has he got the hump?

He does have the curvature of the spine, putting one shoulder higher than the other. They're going to take a digital copy of the skull and recreate the face.

Only joking, Mercurius. Now, if someone would test the DNA of the Glastonbury skeltons…

No problem. TMP can be a tough audience at times

Great news.Also shows you carnt trust anything writen in the tudor period ,didnt they say Richards remains had been tipped into the nearest river. Those lying horrible tudors

This, and the Battlefields Trust work at Bosworth, giVes us a much better picture of what happened, and where, in 1485 …

Phil

The one identified living relation is in Canada, so I expect we'll be mounting an invasion to reclaim the throne soon.

No shroud, no coffin, hands possibly tied. dumped in a too small grave. Knifed to the butt-ocks, probably while dead over the horse.
Welcome to Leicester, your majesty!

Good on all involved. England's last king to die in battle deserved better than a parking lot and Tudor slander.

The one identified living relation is in Canada, so I expect we'll be mounting an invasion to reclaim the throne soon.

While you're away, we'll mount an invasion of Canadia* to get some payback for that "burn the White House" thing. 'Muricans reserve that right for themselves!

* yes, Canadia.

Well if I was one of the relatives I would be keeping my head down…If NCP owned that car park the costs are going to be huge for staying after it was locked for the evening

That was the House of Hanover that did that, not the innocent Plantagenets.

"Now is the winter of our discontent
made glorious summer by this son of York!"

Raise the standards, boys, and bring back the House of York!

Theres also Plantagenets ( Mike Abney ) living in Australia . I wonder if the authorities will now allow DNA tests on the 2 skeletons believed to be the '' two princes in the tower'' . Apparently Richard will be interred at Leicester Cathedral .

link

" … bring back the House of York!"

Given the present Duke of York, you might want to think twice about that one.

Boooo….hissss. The Stanleys rule!

Many thanks to the researchers who Spotted Dick !

A Hearse A Hearse…. My Kingdom for a Hearse

It appears that his feet were missing from the skeletal remains. Is this a mystery of history?

The fact his hands were tied together means maybe, he didnt die in Battle but after.

I had a hunch it might be

" … bring back the House of York!"

Given the present Duke of York, you might want to think twice about that one.

I did say "House of York," which is a family lineage. "Duke of York" is a title. I believe the current title holder is of the House of Windsor (Saxe-Gothburg, actually), so clearly I am not referring to him.

I have previously struggled to understand the relationship between Richard III and the 'Princes in the Tower'.

In a modern day setting I see it as;

Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II is long dead. Her son and heir, King Charles III, has recently died and his two heirs, William and Harry, are incarcerated in the Tower of London by Charles's brother, Prince Andrew, after Charles' marriage to Diana (remember her) is declared illigitimate. William and Harry 'disappear', so Andrew, Duke of York, takes the Crown and becomes King Andrew I, of England.

Simples really.

And that gives you the basis of a game of Very British Civil War MkII.

Very exciting find. Just heard the news on Belgian television.
Did I hear correctly that they found an arrowhead in his spine?

Two heavy blows to the head, other damage, not yet determined if prior to or after death. Hadn't heard of an arrowhead, until you mentioned it.

I suspect he was taken alive, if also mostly dead, and finished off. That would explain tied hands. Missing feet? Weird one, that….

Did I hear correctly that they found an arrowhead in his spine?

Apparently not:
link

The hands could be tied for the simple reason that it was easier to transport the body that way. Even the most hostile Tudor accounts portray Richard as being killed while fighting bravely on the field battle so I don't see much reason to doubt that that was the case.

The feet were probably lost when the fundations of a later building cut through that part of the grave, at least that is the explaination given by the archeologists.

Missing feet = saves on the extra digging. Or maybe the gravedigger just needed some new shoes…. If he couldn't find a horse what need he of feet??

I found a quote confirming Daniels information that "scientists say [his skeleton was] disturbed sometime after burial" resulting in the missing feet. Another source speculates that it was the digging of a church's foundation before the present Franciscan friary that caused the lost feet. I suspect there is physical evidence of the earth being disturbed. It appears unlikely to have anything to do with mutilation or as a labor savings measure.

Footslogger may wish to make travel plans as, "[N]ext year Richard will, at last, get a king's burial, interred with pomp and ceremony in Leicester Cathedral."

The documentary is shockingly bad.

Tied hands and missing feet…zombie precautions?

The documentary was a bit average

The Richard III Society come across very poorly.

On a parallel line, I had a direct descendent of Lord 'Join the side that's winning' Stanley as my Chief Engineer in Star Treck RPG in the late 80's

So it mentions that he could have stood at 5'8" (but probably due to spinal curvature). Was this short, tall, or medium for the time?

Lost Pict

Spot on average. So he would have been taller yet if he had a straight back….

His brother, Edward IV, was said to be VERY tall, and most impressive in his armour.

As to the location of his final resting place, yes, the official position is that it will be Leicester Cathedral, but did I hear that it won't be until 2014? That gives plenty time for lobbying groups to press for a rethink.

No comment from the Palace yet. I wonder what Her Maj makes of it all.

"The Richard III Society come across very poorly."

They stumped up the money.

As these things go I was entertained.

Medium Lost Pict.

There will be a lot of pressure for reburial in York and of course for a Catholic service.

Who painted the 'R' above the body? Any theories?

Those Richard III Society types are a bit full-on aren't they?

Got to admit this had me looking at WOTR minis last night. Sigh, I must resist! ;-)

Thanks,

Lost Pict

…test the DNA of the Glastonbury skeltons…

?Como? Do you mean Artōrius and Gwenhwyfar? Without a known living descendant (and preferably descendants) to test any results against, the pairs' DNA would tell us only a very little. It could plausibly tell us if they were in fact Celts, assuming the Celtic Haplogroup/sub-Haplogroup has been well enough defined lately by "science." As an historian, what I have read of this DNA business of late suggests the consensus on this heading is lacking. However, testing the DNA could at least, broadly speaking, rule out the pair being Near-eastern, and I guess that would be something?

The Return of the King. By the Perrys.

perry-miniatures.com

The Return of the King. By the Perrys

OOOOOOOhhhhhh-aaaaaHHHHHHHH! I WANT one! LOVE the little disabled marker on the splitting tarmac!!