| By John 54 | 27 Jan 2013 2:41 p.m. PST |
Hello folks,
I wonder if you could all help me, I'm going to paint up some members of 1st Commando Brigade for a crossing the Rhine game.
My question is this, did they wear the Airborne Denison smock, with the standard tommy 'battle bowler', and a few green berets for interest?
The only photo I have shows 2 Vickers teams in some sort of smock/jerkin affair. But I know the commandos wore the Denison for the Walcheron operations
So, any help? to smock, or not?
Thanks in advance John |
| Kaoschallenged | 27 Jan 2013 3:03 p.m. PST |
These may be some from LIFE magazine. Robert
link |
| By John 54 | 27 Jan 2013 3:22 p.m. PST |
Good link, thanks, but it raises more questions, as I'm not convinced that they are not Paras. John |
| Jemima Fawr | 27 Jan 2013 4:18 p.m. PST |
Yes, they wore the Dennison Smock. They were actually issued with it in early 1944 and my friend Ted (41 RM Cdo) has a photo of him wearing it in March 1944 as proof. Wargamers take the lack of photos of them in Normandy as 'proof' that they weren't issued, but as Ted says – it was summer and the BD blouse was warm enough, so the Dennions stayed in the Large Pack with the echelon. There are plenty of photos of Commandos wearing Dennisons on Walcheren in November 1944. |
| number4 | 28 Jan 2013 12:36 a.m. PST |
No jump wings on the right shoulder is a good clue here – these are definitely commandos |
| By John 54 | 28 Jan 2013 3:28 a.m. PST |
But l always thought they didn't wear the wings on
The denisons, anyway?
But, great info, thanks all, now, 1/32 airfix paras,
With camo'ed tommy helmets. Smart!
Johm |
| By John 54 | 03 Feb 2013 8:18 a.m. PST |
Am I allowed to bump my own thread? here goes……. Did the British Commandos keep the Thompson into 1945, in place of the Sten? John |
| By John 54 | 04 Feb 2013 6:50 a.m. PST |
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| Jemima Fawr | 04 Feb 2013 7:19 a.m. PST |
Ted reckons they never had Stens and I did read somewhere that the Commandos refused to accept it for service, but I've noting specific or concrete, sorry. The chap wearing the Luftwaffe officer's cap in the front row of this 'interesting' photo of 45 RM Cdo taken in 1945 is holding a Thompson (with foregrip):
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| Jemima Fawr | 04 Feb 2013 7:23 a.m. PST |
Another one here with Thompson:
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| Martin Rapier | 04 Feb 2013 8:16 a.m. PST |
I am also fairly sure Commandos in NWE used Thompsons instead of Stens. (someone will now no doubt produce a picture of a Sten toting Commando!). |
| By John 54 | 05 Feb 2013 6:57 a.m. PST |
Thanks a lot. Loadsa great information. John |
| Jemima Fawr | 13 Feb 2013 12:45 a.m. PST |
On a semi-related note: I was just reading a quote from Lt Col Taylor, Commanding Officer of 5th DCLI (43rd (Wessex) Division). He comments in an account of his battalion's actions at Geilenkirchen in November 1944, that his battalion was completely equipped with camouflage smocks. This is indicative that Dennison smocks were somewhat more widespread than popularly supposed. |
| Trockledockle | 13 Feb 2013 1:35 p.m. PST |
They could be Denison smocks but I wondered if they may be the smock of the camouflage suit. The latter were certainly issued to infantry in the winter of 1944. There is a picture of 52nd Division wearing them on Walcheren. |
| Jemima Fawr | 13 Feb 2013 2:02 p.m. PST |
True enough, 52 Div had hooded windproof smocks issued some years earlier when they were designated as a Mountain Division, supplemented by some of the camo windproofs in 1944. However, it seems likely to me that 43 Div might have picked them from 1st Airborne Division stocks at Nijmegen, while fighting for the 'Island'. 1st Airborne Division's 'Sea Tail' had followed them up to the road to Nijmegen during Market-Garden and would have held large stocks of such things, but suddenly had a severe lack of Airborne soldiers to issue them to. Wild suposition of course… |
| number4 | 13 Feb 2013 7:55 p.m. PST |
One of the benefits of retaining the Thompson over the Sten was commonality of ammunition with the .45 pistol and the De Lisle silenced carbine (which was basically a Lee Enfield with a modified Thompson barrel and Colt 1911 magazine – allied co-operation at it's finest!) |
| By John 54 | 14 Feb 2013 11:30 a.m. PST |
This is all great stuff, cheers guys, as always! John |
| stenicplus | 18 Feb 2013 3:24 p.m. PST |
Ted reckons they never had Stens and I did read somewhere that the Commandos refused to accept it for service, but I've noting specific or concrete, sorry. The chap wearing the Luftwaffe officer's cap in the front row of this 'interesting' photo of 45 RM Cdo taken in 1945 is holding a Thompson (with foregrip): RMD, What's you mate Ted's surname? I have "They Did What Was Asked of Them" by Raymond Mitchell (ISBN 1-85314-205-0 link ) which is a great read on 41 (RM) Commando; interestingly 'Thompson' is in the index, as is 'Bren', but no reference to 'Sten' |
| Jemima Fawr | 19 Feb 2013 3:21 a.m. PST |
Ted Owens. He was an 18 year-old Commando in 41 RM Cdo in 1944 and was wounded three times before his 19th birthday – he took shell-splinters in the back on Sword Beach, a ball-bearing in the kneecap from an S-Mine at Walcheren and more shell-splinters in the throat at 's-Hertogenbosch. HTV Wales did a TV programme on him last year. |
| By John 54 | 25 Jan 2015 10:19 a.m. PST |
Sorry to bump this once more,
So, did the commandoes wear the Para camoflaged smock?, or a plain, khaki item?
Going to paint up some 1/32 boys for the Walcheren battles. John |
| Jemima Fawr | 25 Jan 2015 11:17 a.m. PST |
Camouflaged. Here's my mate Ted in March 1944:
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| Jemima Fawr | 25 Jan 2015 11:34 a.m. PST |
The 52nd (Lowland) Division, who landed alongside the Commandos at Walcheren (on the Vlissingen side) wore the plain khaki, hooded, windproof, mountaineering smocks. |
| andysyk | 03 Feb 2015 6:51 a.m. PST |
If I remember correctly the Thompson was retained as well as the Colt.45 .
This way the unit only needed two calibres of ammo .303 and .45 ACP.
I think a troop was issued two silenced stens for sentry removal. |
