"Do people still have hope for the future of Warhammer?" Topic

I understand that there are older people playing the game – but who are their target audience?
I know that running OG (not comparing it to GW in anyway) I have been told countless times how "I will fail" and "you are doing it all wrong" and yet I have sold millions upon millions of $$$$ of army men in 23 years even though the anti OG crowd constantly raise their heads on sites such as these?
I strongly suspect that GW will be fine through the coming years?
Regards
Russ Dunaway

I think some you need to look at the conventions that center on GW games like Adpeticon. First, the cost of getting into the convention and playing in the games is far more that attending a Historical convention, and I never hear one grip. The crowd at those shows are fairly young, but they have lot invested in miniatures as well as the display boards used to all them around.

And, each year, Adpeticon has been growing about 10%. And it is a convention that basically deals with Games Workshop games.

Second, the year I was there, 500 people were playing in a 40K tournament in one day, which last year had more participates than the year I attended. The gamers in those tournaments have a tendency to spend a lot on GW products, or products that add to the 40K look, including Forge World items and the use of painting services that charge prices I have never seen for a painted miniature.

Those gamers take great pride in their miniatures, no different than any Historical gamer. I know the price is high, but it is their hobby and they enjoy it, so no complaints. In fact, the last time I was in a store in my home town, two guys were playing 40K, and I would say between them they had at least 2 grand in Forge World stuff on the table.

The stores that I visit, which are not GW stores but game stores that sell GW products, usually do very well and are always well stock.

"but who are their target audience?"

Well it was 12-13 year olds who had parents to buy them stuff.

As for where I live there are are 2 GW stores within 30 miles of where I live.

There is another LGS that does sell GW stuff but no one hardly ever plays it at the store.

Plus if you factor in today GW prices I can put well over $2 USDk on the table as well.

I only have at their current prices around $12 USDk or better and most of that stuff is nearly 20 years old.

Best thing about it no Finecast Resin at all.

We all have "local" or "personal" anecdote's -- however based on their sales it would seem to most that someone,somewhere is buying the product?
As far as the target audience I am just repeating what has been stated to me on numerous occasions by people who are involved in a major way with the company?

I remember as a child in Iowa in the 50s --I would only accept Marx men for my soldiers -- my father, on numerous occasions would point out the "bagosoldiers"-- pointing out to me that "by taking this route I would be able to double or triple the amount of little men at a lesser cost".
Of course, I always protested and refused -- so dear ole Dad would pull the wallet out and make "little Rusty" happy and I would go home with actual little Japaneese or Germans, or Alamo fortress's,or Zorro,etc sets and not the "cheap horrible imposters" he had suggested.

I am fully convinced that he did not have a clue as to what was going on -- why I wanted one over the other -- who would want them anyway --and having fought in WW2 was always slightly annoyed by me wanting " war toys" to begin with.
But He loved me -- he would buy them --stuff some chew in his mouth and get back on his tractor for the days/nights work shaking his head all the while? We do live in a big world -- ??
Regards
Russ Dunaway

I find it interesting whenever I hear people go on about "mommy and daddy" feeding their "little 13 -14 year old's" habit. I'm curious as to where these people who are saying this actually live. Or is the whole "mommy and daddy" thing just a convenient thing for people who hate GW to fall back on when they feel like whining and complaining?

I wonder about this because where I live there sure aren't any spoiled 14 year olds playing 40k with the $1,000 USD army that their soccer mom bought them. They all play Magic. :D

Seriously, where I'm at, yes there are some teens playing the game, but it's primarily older guys (30 – 40+) who have the disposable income to throw around.

So what's GW's "target audience"? I don't know, but somehow I doubt they're specifically targeting "young kids w/ rich parents". That kind of business plan seems set up to fail right from the start.

I guess you have not got to see the toys kids play with today?? Video games, cell phones,Xboxs, etc,etc,etc --??
Although my grandson does not do miniatures he has to have 1000s 0f $$$$$$$ worth of various games, discs,legos(you think those are cheap), wi, etc,etc etc again ?????
I do noe know where anyone would get an idea that I hate GW ?? I love GW although I have never purchased one penny of the product as I am strictly historical.
As far as the 'target audience" concept -- I got that right from the founders and some other high personel on several occassions over dinner --- I have never even been in a GW store in my life so I am only pointing out what I have been told?
My point is --- perhaps the GW haters may not be as as numerous as sites like these may indicate?
regards
Russ Dunaway

No, but they are better than Finecast Resin.

As for the GW haters well if you have been screwed over by them due to the changing of the rules.

I.E. lowering the range of the Eldar Guardians weapon from 24" down to 12" just because it was killing off Marines.

Or them dropping or just stop supporting one of the games that you enjoyed playing.

Squats or Man-O-War plus many, many others.

The yearly expected price increases of 10% – 20%.

The fact that the last Eldar Codex for 40k came out two editions ago.

Plus when the new comes out it will cost around $60. USD

What is there to like about them?

Just move on and don't do their stuff anymore, or play the game the way you want to play it as far as movement,fire,etc --????
Why does a game need "supported" I have never really got that?
Regards
Russ Dunaway

Shareholders

That is GW only God.

All it will take is for one really good replacement to come out and take a bite out of GW. It won't be Warmahordes, but they did shake up GW a few years ago. Perhaps, some inspired young lad will write a good set of fantasy rules which players will actually like and can afford. What a concept- everything you need in one book!

I in particular am looking forward to further 30k releases like Mechanic um Skitarii.

Hope for fair pricing and decent rules? Nope, that was over many years ago (as Mithmee illuminates above). Hope that they will continue to turn a profit? Seems likely. In fact, they seem rather entrenched, and the competition is following GW'S pricing policies. If they only have to sell one Finecast miniature to one sucker every year for 1,000,000 yen, they will. Those of us who don't like it should (and often do) just walk away and buy/play something else… but I think GW will be around for a long time yet…

Correct billthecat, The people that are unhappy with the product/company can just walk away -- I so do not understand the emotions that go into "hating" a toy soldier company? I understand hating poverty, injustice, terrorrisim, child molesters etc,etc,etc -- but a soldier company?
They do not provide food,insulin, heart medice,warmth,protection,etc,etc.

As far as finecast -- my suspicion is that if it was such a huge failure they would have already backed off by now -- even coke --a huge firm did so some years back with their "new coke.

"The only god to GW is shareholders" I think that it just may be the law that they listen to shareholders?
What I strongly suspect is that in the beginnig they hit "lightning in a bottle" and it will never be replicated?

They have their own retail outlets, public support from non hobbyist,copyrights,financial backing,etc,etc,etc
Very hard to reproduce?

All of this of course is MHO.

Regards
Russ Dunaway

I no longer buy from GW due to their sales tactics:"We ddn't make enough last year, RAISE the price by 20% next year!" umm… when you lose money, you don't raise your prices, you lower them, I mean, I still love their game, but they lost all support from me, I now buy from other companies, namely Prince Augest and Tamiya.

Well, I DO detest GW, and gladly 'hate' on them… (of course other issues are much more important than our silly hobby, but that does not alter the nature of GW's practices). The beauty of it is that I don't have to buy their products: They don't have a monopoly on 'the hobby' no matter what their claims… Therefore not really a big deal: buy somewhere/something else (superior products for less money, IMHO).
But yes, for whatever reasons it seems GW CAN still turn a profit (if others want to spend their money in this fashion, that is their buisness and I grudge them not… it is not a moral issue to me.) GW will be around for a long time I think, because obviously people are still buying GW stuff despite continual price increases etc… etc…
I think GW HAS been 'replicated' several times 9and even improved upon), but their reputation and initial stake has given them enough loyalty and exposure (and PERCIEVED monoploy)to stay way ahead of the emulators.
I only care at all because GW pricing/policies have certainly affected the entire hobby: miniatures wargaming has become very 28mm/fantasy oriented thanks to GW success (sounds good to me) but also, following suite, these games have all become very 'boutique' and followed the GW pricing model (10-15 USD for a single miniature: way more than 'inflation' or 'rising production costs'… this is because enough people are buying at these prices…)
Nobody has come along and tried to produce a more reasonably priced alternative to the GW buisness model… IF that happens THEN GW may take a big hit and eventually fail (real competition)… The problem is that GW is a real giant, and it would take a MASSIVE (CORPORATE) investment to compete in this fashion. Of course, large companies don;t tend to think/operate like this for whatever reasons (cultural) so there you go: GW can do whatever they like and enough people keep buying it because the alternative is only a psuedo-alternative or very low profile (all the 'StarGrunt' gamers combined don't have 1/100 the market/media presence that GW has accumulated).
Anyway, I think I will go buy some miniatures from a small manufacturer now… there are so many good ones!
All the best!

There's a lot more competition out there now and for very similar products.

GW are gradually killing themselves with their pricing policy which I can only assume is to because of their high fixed costs (ie high street stores).

If they're not careful they'll be going the way of a lot of other high street stores.

Do I have hope for the future of Warhammer.
As someone who has been fantasy gaming pre 1st edition -
None whatsoever!!!
6th edition and the Storm of Chaos was my last serious hurrah.
Workshop will always walk their own way on the heads of their customers.
For me it's: the cost can't justify it
The mundane nature of the armies now and the lack of imagination.
The sheer boredom of my fellow fantasy gamers who have had the 'upgrade' bleating on about is it official or when is GW going to collapse.
Also the Games Police saying you can't use that because its not canon.
Please its bleeping fantasy gaming the key is in the name!!

To paraphrase Virgil Cane" You take what you need but leave the rest, but they should never have taken the very best".

There we go old geezers rant over.

And the saga continues:

link

For me, it's a little thing called *principle.*

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Though Amazon has put it back up and you can buy it.

I doubt that GW will push this because they know that they will lose.

Going back to the OP, and thinking about it some more, I think asking about the current state of WFB and/or LOTR is a fair question. Locally (in St. Louis) there are about five times as many signed up for 40k leagues as either WFB or LOTR, and that group has played far more games per person than has the WFB group, and the LOTR group can't seem to get off the ground. That says something, even with all the various explanations one can make about the difference.

I won't buy anything from GW anymore. I can't believe how badly their Fantasy rules have degenerated and how far they will go to fleece the unwary gamer. I go all the way across town now to buy paints etc from small independant shops, rather than walk into the GW store. The last time I went into a GW store I felt like I'd been raped.

As corporations go, I don't wish them any particular ill-will as they are no better or worse than all the rest. At least they are not putting horse-meat into their products….as far as I know.

Not horse-meat…. Finecast. Didn't you know that horse-meat is a superior and more expensive product than those traditional steaks you've been eating? Accept no imitation… ;)

And nicely said, Black Widow Pilot…