"Do people still have hope for the future of Warhammer?" Topic

Basic question. Seems that everyone always decries any time there is news of anything GW these days. Is there anyone that still sees the bright side of things when it comes to warhammer?

Yes, but they mostly talk about it on other sites. TMP is far from GW-friendly…

I have sold out all of my stuff down to a single army of Black Templars and refuse to spend any other money supporting GW.

All my funds now go to building Historical adventures.

I agree with nazrat.
It's like asking about the future of the Catholic church at Al Jazeera.

Given this:

TMP link

I think they will be doing okay.

I think, at least in 40K terms, they have a huge untapped market in the Horus Heresy figures.

I wish GW the best of luck in promoting their hobby and keeping the gateway drugs on the open market. They have priced me out of their market, so I no longer play. But I bear no ill will towards them for this; they are a business trying to make money.

I made a conscious decision in 87 not to support them.

TMP can be a rather harsh environment to games and companies that become too successful. GW is one of them, Battlefront is another. So it's not exactly the best forum for these type of questions.

I agree with 28 mm Fanatik while I have stopped buying or at least paying full retail for GW stuff I do not wish the company any ill will. It is because of 40K and Warhammer Fantasy Battle that I am a miniature war gamer and collector. Yes, I have moved on to doing more historical war games but I still enjoy a 40K or WFB game every now and then. I would play FOW but I have other WW II games I like better and can use the same stuff for. Battlefront made WW II gaming accessible. But yes there does seem to be a loud and strident group on TMP that hates any manufacturer that is successful. This is not just limited to GW and Battlefront as I have seen the same vitriol leveled at some successful mom and pop operations.

To answer the question at Bar, yes the game will continue. Look at the Sword and the Flame, it has been around forever and has a strong following. I could name many others.

I dont think its success that bothers TMPer's its how companies behave when they reach a certain level of success.

I still look forward to and collect GW's 2 main core games. Yes, talking about it here is like banging your head against the wall at times.

Damon.

No, I think it is the success that bothers them.

Good lord what did GW do to you in 1987 that warranted that kind of reaction?

What Pictors said in his second post.
and something else that I've wondered about, Privateer Press's Warmahordes has marketing and pricing policies that make GW and BF look like your granny, but we never see any vitriol levelled at them.
I wonder why.

GW have made a few wrong turns but they have done loads of good for the hobby and I think will continue to do so in the future.

I don't hope either way really.
WFB is the de facto standard fantasy game.
So I have a bunch of their stuff because I want to play fantasy.
I don't think the rules are great.
So I'm also designing a set of rules which will allow me to use the same figures for what I plan on being a better game.

GW lures kids into the hobby and then they grow up.
Some proportion realise there are other games out there.
Which is good.

Short term, I would imagine the hobbit will up profits.
Very sunny.

Long term, I see clouds on the horizon.

The strategy of putting prices up in order to increase profit but at the cost of number of players seems pretty risky to me.
Doubly so since it makes it worthwhile for small companies to start up and compete.

There is also 3d printing coming along.
I would think it only a matter of time before the cost of "printing" miniatures comes down which could allow more competitors to erode sales.
At some point further down the line I would think many households will have a 3d printer as well as a regular one.
I would think then there's a high risk that a company relying on charging 10 quid for a 28mm infantry figure is going to sell almost none.

I'll happily play Rogue Trader and WFB3. I'll happily buy old GW figures off of Ebay.
That's about all I have to do with them these days.
It's nothing to do with their 'success'… I just mostly don't care for their newer product.

I collected both of their main ranges for a while and had some fun playing them. Heck, GW helped me learn how to paint. But my heart was never in their worlds or fluff. So I slowly pulled out. LOTRis a different story as I love the rules, minis, and the fluff (thanks to the good professor!). But I feel priced out of the latest release. But I hold no ill will toward them though.

As for their future, I think that the high prices that they command will bite them at some point. It's just not the best economy and GW products aren't staples! But as long as kids can get the folks to toss out the bucks on the plastic 'crack' then GW has a chance.

After not playing for a few years, I had my first game of 6th edition 40k last week. Really enjoyed it, though I have enough built and unbuilt GW that I probably won't be buying anything new soon. Still, they keep up a good pace of new releases that seem to be selling well, so that's good news also.

My pessimism (despite one quarter of profits) about the future of GW is the way that the board keeps writing themselves really big dividend checks even when the company doesn't make a profit, sometimes even borrowing in order to do so. That coupled with the continually raising prices, and rumors of a lack of growth (possible decline) in their customer base doesn't bode well for their future as a company.

TMP membership tends to be older and a bit more wiser than, say, members on forums devoted to Warhammer or 40K, which seem to be populated with teens through maybe 30-somethings. TMP people have seen the truth, so to speak, about GW.

WHFB and 40K will continue as long as GW can bring in new (aka young) players as quickly as the older players fizzle out.

BTW I am a Warmaster and Black Powder fan.

No, I think it is never going to stop.

When the background to 40k is dystopian despair, should anyone hold hope and still call themselves a fan?

They will be fine. I have started selling off my 40K stuff little by little, gonna keep my Chaos Marines army. I have a few fantasy armies, and our area has a number of players so that is still enjoyed from time to time. All in all I have moved more and more into historical wargaming.

It would be a shame to see them go, however I have been in WFB, WAB, and 40K over the years and 40K is the only system that I am currently playing as far as they can tell. I have stopped playing WFB because they have bad models and rules currently, and they have stopped supporting WAB, which I still play from time to time. I do play 40K and I still dont have an extensive set of miniatures as I would like for this system, so I am still in the market for some of their miniatures.

Since I am someone who does collect older miniatures anyways, if they fold up tomorrow it would be a shock at the time, but I would not be completely lost as some people would be, and my life would start back up again in a few minutes.

I think the company will survive the internal shakedown between the creative and administrative part that will happen at some point. Their business model is not stupid, but I am not sure if it is flexible to survive a period of no profits in a depressed economy. But the company will survive even if the current models does not. I think their fluff sells well, and as long as the creative team is not thrown under the bus by the CEOs it should do fine.

Being that they have similar business models, do people feel the same about Battlefront and the FOW franchise?

DM

Short answer IMO … NO …

What are you talking about? This is a classic example of assuming a false premise is true and baking it into the question. You are taking the gripes of a vocal minority and projecting them into a false plurality, "everyone." And what do you mean by "hope?" Could you be more vague? Hope what? That the system conforms to what "everyone" thinks would make it better? It certainly can't be that you hope the models get better as they are the cutting edge of the industry as witnessed by the new Warriors of Chaos releases.

Hope for the most popular and successful miniatures wargame? Call me a starry-eyed optimist, but yes.

Although I disagree with axabrax's assessment of quality , he hits the nail on the head with "assuming a false premise". Note the use of the word "everyone" in the OP's assumption.
What we see there is again the classic "If you do not play with your toys the way I do, you are obstinately wrong."
That applies equally to Flames of War, Empire, DBA, or Panty Explosion.

I made a conscious decision in 87 not to support them.

LOL They've been hurting ever since.

And SMC, I mean nothing personal by that. I just think it's a funny response in light of their considerable financial success since 1987. :D

And I guess he won't see that, since I think he just stifled me. HAH!

Guess I should know that would happen when commenting on any thread involving GW, BF, or Napoleonics. :D

GW will carry on I would think. There are always new kids to pick pocket. But for me its 15mm all the way with sci-fi.

I've been priced out of their stuff. I have retained Rogue Trader(87), 2nd ed 40k, early Epic, 2nd ed WHFB, BattleFleet Gothic, Man O' War, Necromunda/GorkaMorka and Warhammer Ancients-all augmented by add-ons and ideas from the net. I liked the premise and ideas from the get go, miss the low priced plastic sets they used to have. I plan on playing most of the stuff I have this spring, broken rules and all.

GW will reach a breakpoint in their sales strategy, the economy alone will change what they do.

Privateer Press's Warmahordes has marketing and pricing policies that make GW and BF look like your granny, but we never see any vitriol levelled at them.

I'd answer that question, if I were the type to hold grudges.

Maybe one of the oldtimers will fill you in on the time I dared criticise their marketing schemes. "Horde of locusts descending on TMP" is a description that would insult the hard-working insects.

As for Warhammer, I think it does as much harm as good for the hobby in general. While there are folks who game minis because of GW, I know as many people who were turned off. These are people who otherwise still game, but refuse to touch miniatures of their own any more.

"Good lord what did GW do to you in 1987 that warranted that kind of reaction?"

That would be interesting to know since back then and for the next decade they were a decent company.

Then they changed and ever since then if I wanted anything I went to Ebay.

I still have some very big armies as well.

But the games today are not that great and Finecast Resin sucks balls.

Oh and the above link about their profits.

Well when you increase prices by 10-20% and sell 40k Codexes for $50 USD then yes their profits will go up.

The thing is can they maintain them?

There will be a limit on just how much their fanboyz can keep them going.

How many of the "fan boys" are 12-14 years olds and the mommy and daddy have no idea of figure values,etc?
It's little Johnnys birthday and he wants his little army men?
regards
Russ Dunaway

As to the O.P. im back after 10 years off. Im very excited about the new 30k book and miniatures.

I almost have 40 30k World Eaters made up. After I have 50 done will work on Sons of Horus & vehicles.

Chinese/russians are moving into GW territory and they are making copies of forge world stuff quite cheap,so you can have whole FW army for a cost of normal army.

>>>>Chinese/russians are moving into GW territory and they are making copies of forge world stuff quite cheap,so you can have whole FW army for a cost of normal army

Just don't try to play in a sanctioned GT with the knock-offs. I visualize GW inserting an RFID tag into each Finecast miniature with tournament judges and referees doing spot checks on armies with security wands. Although now that I think about it, the Chinese would get that figured out pretty quickly as well.

DM

Plus the Chinese stuff jsut might even be better than GW's.

I was looking forward to the Eldar release later this year but knowing GW the Codex could cost more than the Dark Angels.

Plus I have nearly 170+ Eldar models now I don't need anything else.

Plus those models are nearly all metal except for the Guardians with the plastic arms.

It's like asking about the future of the Catholic church at Al Jazeera

The irony being you would probably get a balanced discussion on Al Jazeera.

FWIW, the store owners I've asked about the subject say sales are still fairly flat, but they've stopped growing since the Finecast switch, even with the aid of new Hobbit stuff. The most commonly cited reasons are:

1) They aren't getting as many kids anymore. The teen crowd is increasing spending its (parent-provided) money elsewhere, with "living" and deck-building card games making big inroads in minis sales. The average GW gamer age is climbing into the 20-something range for these stores, and that's an age range that doesn't have a ton of disposable income any more – at least compared to kids who are still living at home.

2) GW tells stores nothing. Seriously, their sales reps give you a week's notice on new releases, and actively deny "rumors" from sites like Bell of Lost Souls and Dakka Dakka. That's a radical change from years past, when stores could buy preview copies of minis and codices as demo copies to ramp up interest in upcoming releases. The current "everything is top secret" trope cripples that, makes ordering difficult, and generally ticks off retailers no end.

3) Finecast was a bomb from day one, and has cost them loads of players due to a combination of absurd prices and (initially, at least) shoddy QC.

Fortunately for them, some old guys like me unearthed their 20 years old armies and upgrade them.

:)

I used to play historical but now only 40k. Much more people to play with and I dont have to worry about "realism", just enjoy the game. After all who can take a game serious where the ride motorcycles into combat while wielding chainsaws? So I really enjoy it. By the way, Im over 40 ys old. They have not "priced me out" . It is my hobby it is supposed to cost money. And anyway selling off my historical figures made sure I can buy loads of GW stuff.

@Russ,
You have no idea how much I regret not knowing about your fine Renaissance lines when I was collecting my Empire army!
I saw a friend's armies used for Lord Kaplan gaming and was blown away. I asked why he didn't mention them since the local store would have ordered some and he said he figured I would only want official minis! LOL

Interesting comments. just like Soledad, I'm nearing 40 and don't find 40K any more a "kids" game than any other game that promotes moving toy soldiers across a board and rolling dice. The big drawback for me getting into 40K has always been the prices (and I could afford it if I wanted). I'm so used to paying $40 USD and getting 100 quality figures in 15mm, not just 10 space marines. Finecast is not a good deal-$20 for one figure. I've seen plenty of 28mm figures just as good for less than $5. USD Price, and price alone keeps me from jumping on board the 40K wagon. I like the books, the game is ok, the figures as good as any….price, price, price…

As far as the future of GW the company, any gaming company with their money and infrastructure could create or move into a new niche with ease. The current leadership may feel squeezing current WAB/40k players is the best path to profit, but they or another CEO could change and decide to move into a new area, like Napoleonics or 6mm sci-fi again, or whatever, and make a credible go at it. It will take a longer-term bad management team to take down the company.

Well maybe, but there will come a time when the yearly increase in prices will finally only allow a very small number of individuals to buy them.

Take Pike & Shotte base set.

link

In that box you get:

The Rulebook (hardback book)

82 miniatures

The cost at my LGS was $96 USD so with tax around $105. USD

Now if GW was selling this box set it would cost over $450 USD to include tax.

I am a Dark Angels player and they have price the new Codex at $50 USD so with tax that will be around $55. USD

I won't buy it because it is way over price.