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"Loubino scenario help wanted" Topic


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Shaman Ashby20 Jan 2013 6:51 a.m. PST

Greetings. I was hoping to enlist some help creating the battle of Loubino 1812. The challenge has been described by others on the "net": trying to find arrival times for units. The battle was much more of a meeting engagement then most other Napoleonic battles. I have grabbed some information from sources on the internet as well as read the useful parts of Nafzinger, Riehn, and Austin. The bottom line is that English sources can tell you about the beginning and end, but not much about the middle. Sadly they also all seem to have the same wording.
Here is what I believe I know in quick summary.
At about 2 pm the battle starts when Razout ran into the Russian advance guard under Tutshkovs III. Razout had the 4th and 18th Ligne deployed to the south of the road.
At 3pm a battalion of the converged grenadiers from the 3rd division took up position behind the Stragan to reinforce the blocking force.
At 4 pm Barclay sent a 12lb battery, a battalion of Volhynie IR, and the Elisabethgrad and Isoum Hussar Regiments, to support Tutshovs III line behind the Stragan.
At about 5 pm, the whole available French III Corps, (with some of the I Corps and Cavalry reserve) had just launched its full weight upon the Russian line.

The Russian march order was the advanced guard under Tutshkov III, 1 Cavalry Corps, 3rd Infantry Corps, 4th Infantry Corps, 2nd Intanry Corps, and then the rearguard of Korff II. The rear most part of 4 and all of 2nd corps apparently got held up as the 2nd infantry corps got held up at Gorbunovo fighting part Nansouty's cavalry that hit them as the Russian column went west to east just north of Smolensk.
Does anyone else have other knowledge and/or sources to find anymore credible descriptions of events. I certainly have a bit more then I posted, but didnt want to make you read to much! Hopefully this will also help me tease apart the OOB descrepancies. All help is apprecitated, but as originally posted, I am most interested in how the regiments are brigaded and clues as to when they may have been available. Thank you in advance

Morning Scout20 Jan 2013 8:13 a.m. PST

If you have not already seen it. The work by Adolphe Thiers gives a good running if a bit rambling account of the action. It is a bit short on exact times, but it does provide a good progression of the battle. His work is available free on Google books

Shaman Ashby22 Jan 2013 10:17 p.m. PST

Thank you for the insight! It was good to read an account that didnt seem to orginate from the source as all the rest. It did have a few pearls, but as you pointed out a bit rambling. It was a good read!

Shaman Ashby27 Jan 2013 7:57 p.m. PST

Try as I might, I havent been able to answer these questions.
Which battalion(s) in Neys command were engaged with Prince Eugen outside of Gorbunovo as Barclay attempted to retreat with half his army northeast of Smolensk. The Russian literature describes Eugen being hard pressed and only saved by the timely arrival of 3 or 4 Hussar regiments. However alot of Neys command is further southeast starting the engagement of Lubino. Who was there, from Ney's command, to give Eugen such a fit?
Is anyone aware of literature that supports the Russian regiments being brigaded in ways seperate from Borodino OOB?
Both of the AoE scenarios have the units put into brigades/divisions differently, and each would appear to disagree with the English speaking sources that I have. I do realize that OOB's for games are not historical documents, but it makes me wonder if they know more than me.
Again, thank you in advance for what help you can give me.

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