"New Hammer's Slammers Critical Mass force" Topic

One of the questions often asked of the Hammer's Slammers: The Crucible rule set is "can I use other forces that I already have or that I plan to buy?"

The plan for 2013 is to expand the forces players can use with the system and one way to do that is to locate suitable candidates to fill roles already specified in the rules or Hammer's Slammers books*.

Such an opportunity arose with the latest vehicles from Critical Mass Games: enter the New Ukrainian Army.

Established in 352TW, the NUA was formed from the backbone of the Zaporoskiye Brigade, a mercenary force that had existed since 311TW. After completing many contracts on dozens of worlds – Sulewesi, Cullen's World, Ktarch and planets within the Gorgon Cluster – Hetman (Colonel) Ivan Orlyk, now in his seventies, witnessed what Alois Hammer had done on New Friesland and considered a similar move on his home world.

The New Ukrainian Army uses powerful tracked vehicles with powerguns for a main weapon and coil-guns and light missiles as secondary weapon systems.

First detachments of vehicles are finished (though the infantry – Earth Force Home Guard and Drop Troopers – are still on the way from Rebel Miniatures!) and information on the force can be downloaded here link .

There's a Big Detachment Play sheet here PDF link and a gallery piece on the painting of the vehicles here link .

Enjoy – and look forward to more new stuff in 2013!

John Treadaway

* I want to stress there are a fair number of forces already extant within the 'Slammerverse' that have not had specifications and toys allocated to them yet: but they are being worked on!

These look amazing! I love the background for them and the photographic backgrounds too!

It was a great idea to use those N scale buildings like that to give it some perspective. Such a great idea in fact that I'm going to steal it! muwahahahhahaha

Oh, and when is that book or making terrain you guys should be making coming out?

Thanks for the continued support and happy New Year.

So many sci-fi vehicles out there right now have shapes that are very pleasing to my eyes, but I get driven nuts by the "greeblies all over the place for no reason" method of detailing. That said, i do have a lot of said types of 15mm vehicles and they do paint up nice despite their lack of an "engineers eye". Yours are prime examples John, I like that scheme a lot.

excellent John!

Great work and I have already stolen the Kato building idea and my sister in law gave me eight for Christmas.
Which is damn cool of her.

John, thanks for all the work you and your friends do on the Slammersverse.

Thanks all for the positive feedback: I shall be looking to incorporate other manufacturers products (vehicles and infantry) into suitable slots in the 'Slammersverse' to give people lots of chances to play :)

@Darby E – it's a tricky one with the detail, isn't it? I guess we all relate to things we already know and – as has been shown from years of SF modelling, the movie business (that we were most of us brought up on) is determined to stick engine blocks onto the outside of the Millenium Falcon! "Greeblies" – in one form or another – have been 'in' for decades now.

Back "in my day", of course, Dan Dare's Anastasia, Virgil's Thunderbird 2 and the original Enterprise were all sleek and featureless (and very hard to paint [especially with Army painter Dip!]). But I'm just an old fogey (which is probably why I like the JSIII/M48 look of Slammers Blowers…)

Thanks for the comments about the Kato Buildings Patrick and Mr Harold – I confess I stole the idea myself from Robin Fitton who had a couple for a Gruntz game I saw a year ago or so and we are buying them in large numbers to build a city for…

At Salute! See you there!

John T

Very cool !!

So many sci-fi vehicles out there right now have shapes that are very pleasing to my eyes, but I get driven nuts by the "greeblies all over the place for no reason" method of detailing. That said, i do have a lot of said types of 15mm vehicles and they do paint up nice despite their lack of an "engineers eye".

Seems a rather ungracious thing for a manufacturer to say about his competition.

Darby E is a manufacturer?

Love the vehicles and concept to add existing ranges to the game. Great idea and nice job and the vehicles!

Thanks,

John

I'm not sure he means what he wrote then. I think

Believe it or not I've only just started reading hammers slammers! I've tried, however could never find it, however I've just realised I can get it on my kindle now. Enjoying it a lot!

P.s

John T . I dropped you an email in regard to flaunting my figures :)

Darby E is a manufacturer?

link

Well

At least he is being honest.

I have no issues with being honest, as should be all too obvious. However, I think that manufacturers here usually try to treat each other with a bit of professional courtesy.

That didn't seem offensive to me, just a statement of a preference of style

I also didn't see anything offensive or derisive there. We all have things we like and don't like.

-Eli

We all have things we like and don't like.

But we don't all have money invested in products. It's a little different in that case -- those who do often refrain from criticising the products of others.

I don't really see who's being offensive to whom. Different strokes for different folks, surely?

There are very few – by my estimates – serious manufacturers in this end of the hobby: most of them, like me, I guess as a rules writer, are just gamers who want to spread some extra joy with their creations.

Sure, the CMG vehicles won't be to every one's taste, but they are nice, well cast, 'brutal' looking kit and it deserves as big an outing as it can get, in my estimation. The Grav versions look nice too, but don't really fit in with the Slammers stuff, but they will appeal to others: horses for courses.

For me Darby E's opinions are as valid as anyone elses here who's a gamer (irrespective of whatever else they do): and that's pretty much all of us. Incidentally, I won't now slip into my usual comment about us 'all signing on as ourselves' and 'owning our own opinions' as you will have heard it all before from me!

Personally, I applaud those in the hobby who actually want to design stuff/paint stuff/write stuff/make stuff and so the last thing I want to do is shoot them for having as gentle an opinion as "a few too many greeblies for my taste".

Anyway: pulpit closed down for now! ArmiesArmy: thanks for making contact – I'll check out my email later on and get back to you.

Thanks for allthe feedback.

John T

Never said I wanted to shoot anyone. I repeat, I'm surprised to read a manufacturer say anything negative about other manufacturer's goods, for the same reason you salute them for putting product out there -- it's clearly not an easy thing to do and no one knows that better than others who have done the same thing.

What I'm saying has nothing to do with the product. I have no connection to CMG and personally, I don't like those models, not because they have too much detail, but because they have too little. I mean, just look at the wheels. They look like they were carved out of a bar of soap. Nice paint job though, which goes a long way.

John Treadaway is not a manufacturer ? And I don't see anything offensive in anyones comments ?

I'm offensive and i'm not a manufacturer.

Greeblies and details and things stuck on for the sheer visual impact make it easier to paint a small vehicles as it gives things to highlight and shade and even colour.

For example this:

was a lot less of a challenge to paint than this:

That is partially why I added the stowage, to make it look less plain.

Which looks best? – As has been said horses for courses.
Which is most realistic? – Neither they are made up/pretend/not real/toys.

I prefer vehicles with less stuff on them but at the same time find them harder to paint well.
Thus each style has its place for me, neither is better than the other, they are just different.

AB, been meaning to tell you your stuff is GREAT! Very well done sir.

Thanks,

John

AB, your stuff belongs on a 6mm Slammers table.

AB, your stuff belongs on a 6mm Slammers table.

That certainly something I have had the odd discussion about :)

I'm going to have to get my thiking cap on for 2013!

John T

Thanks chaps, though it was not my intent this time to self promote.
I don't think I have anywhere near enough vehicles to warrant them being used in Hammers Slammers, but I am happy to discuss that though, so John can have the official low down on what they are..

:D

AngelBarracks – I will see what forces are out there in 15mm/28mm that don't have an easy way to replicate them in 6mm and see if there's something that can easily proxy in: I'll send you some examples of Big Detachment sheets and see what you think.

John T

Heroics & Ros makes 6mm stowage, I think that is what A/B put on his very nicely done models –

I use it too … As far as which looks "realistic" … well usually on ops, in the field, etc., most vehicles had a lot of stowage. Especially for Infantry, most APCs/IFVs are tight in the troop compartment even without all the "stowage" … so most of it went on the outside of the vehicle. Same can be said about MBTs … it does not take long for the inside of an AFV to get crowded inside …As far as models … it's a personal choice … Do what works for you … As my 6mm Slammers show here, they came with stowage, which certainly fits in with Drake's experience with the 11th ACR and mine with being in 3 Mech Bns in my past … link

I'm with L4 on that. Even when I add stowage it's never, ever enough (for my tastes): but budget and time constraints (even when I buy it pre-painted! [a budget/time trade off!]) mean that I never put enough on a vehicle for it to be 'realistic'.

But I always like to try and put some on, even if it's ony a little.

or – in that case – a lot…

John T

Stowage FTW!

(yes I used the H&R/Armstrong)

My apologies Porfirio,

I misread your comment.

It IS unusual to see manufacturers saying anything negative about other manufacturers things, even if in the arena of constructive criticism. I'm not sure this is a good thing, as most manufacturers are also consumers and constructive criticism is good all around.

-Eli

Apologies for the thread going on a bit of a swerve John.

I, as an individual, was stating my personal preference in relation to the models presented and did not intend to put down any companies or their products. I do believe I even made positive comments about them painting up nice, which is the important thing; how they look in the end. If you look back through my posts I think you will see that I do indeed try to offer as much positive and constructive feedback as I can, even when I/we post as Darkest Star Games (and I make dang sure no other DSG employee would post negatively as DSG). There are many on the forum that do not. I guess I do not see where I put anything directly negative.

Back onto the topic…

I had no idea H&R made 6mm stowage. Good find!

John, it's hard for me to tell from the pics, but how do the Kato buildings go with 15mm? Isn't N gauge 1/144?

For the Kato buildings, they are N scale, and they are small, especially with the doors and such.

But, as John T mentioned, Robin over at Gruntz uses them well:

from: link

I also have some, I might break them out to use as scenery backdrops, but I generally see them as a little too out of scale with door ways and such for gaming. But that's just a personal preference.

even when I/we post as Darkest Star Games..

Oooh well in that case, seeing as that is you, look at my favouite 6mm tank with the AB feel added to it, a few extra guns and some stowage.

It is such a cool model, I hope they are selling well for you.
Maybe John should 'Slammers' the DSG range?

Kato buildings: They are a little small, I grant you, and so you have to be a little selective in what you chose and I have employed some strategicly placed doors (Antenocitie and the like) to mask this, where needed.

You can see this in the building onthe left of this picture:

The one with the blued out windows – it has a (rusty) Antenocity resin door stuck over the top of the door it came with.

Her's another stuck on Lego 'blockhouse work' to raise it up to the height of my monorail:

The station worked out quite well and the big tram model becomes a slightly smaller urban monorail (and with dirty windows, you can't really see inside to check the seat size).

But when you get a big, monolithic slab like this one:

I think they can stand as is and pass muster (just).

link

And I am a chap that is usually very tight with scale!

Darby E – don't worry about the thread swerving: I wanted to stick the shots of the CMG stuff a) because I think it's nice; b) because Craig at CMG were decent enough to send me some, which was kind of them; and c) because I'd like my fellow gamers to have options when playing rules and that's the aspect of the Slammers stuff I was (for want of a better phrase) 'pimping'.

Nothing you said distracted from any of that!

John T

EDIT:

On the Darkest Star stuff, can I take it that they are the (Adler) Dark Star range? I suspect I may have missed a piece of news but have they been sold? (and no longer available from Adler?). I'm quite a fan of Leon's (at Adler) work and have enjoyed the (Chub Pearson sculpted) 28mm Ventaurans and Federation (and have used them as Slammers forces for years:

If I'm right in also saying that they are available in 15mm now from an Australian company (whose name escapes me) then they are a definate 'work in' to the Slammers rules in 15mm and 6mm

Alright…you've convinced me I'll get mine out of storage and see what I can do with them…

Alright…you've convinced me grin I'll get mine out of storage and see what I can do with them…

I use N gauge stuff with my 6mm.
When you do get them out could you post some pics of some 6mm next to them too please?

Michael.

AB, those additions make a world of difference. Wow! It really adds a lot of character to the model. We had a mold made of a bunch of stowage, MGs, missile ammo, etc., but it is more miss than hit when spun. However, the extra guns that come with the Federation Grav Sled might work nicely just as you've done. Experimentation time!

@JT:
Adler put the Dark Star range up for sale over the summer and we got lucky. Leon has been retained as the 6mm designer, as that is something he really likes to do and he is so good at it! The 6mm range will be appearing in 15mm, as well as some new stuff which will also appear in 6mm later. Not sure about the designs that Eureka and Denizen put out (chicken and egg and all that) but they are great sculpts.

Those Kato buildings look great. They really do. And using eh Lego as foundation works surprisingly well too! But wow do they cost… It looks like the key to kato buildings for 15mm is to get stuff with fewer windows or things that can scale against the figures, such as store fronts and awnings that are too low. Or maybe use very thin bases for the figs?

But, in a gaming context where we artificially shorten weapons and movement ranges anyways, perhaps smaller "Scale" buildings are the way to go?

Wow! It really adds a lot of character to the model

That is one of the things I like about the Slammers stuff that John does, they look like lived in vehicles.

I chatted to a few military sorts a while back about IFVs and so on as well as having watched a good few documentaries.
The crews really seem to 'bond' with their vehicles, giving pet names and using good luck rituals, custom artwork and of course their stowed gear.

It is these touches I think that make the models better, and John is very good at visually appealling toys.

:D

Darkest Star

Glad the Leon is still in the picture and hope you do well with the range: they are nice kit.

On the buildings front, the Kato stuff is interesting: paying £40.00 GBP – £45.00 GBP for a large building (like one of the two big ones in the shots) or £25.00 GBP – £30.00 GBP for one of the smaller ones (all slightly less if I gamble on eBay) is a conundrum, to be sure: people will pay, maybe, half that for a resin building that's probably smaller, often less well detailed and that needs painting and finishing and will never have detail like clear windows and so forth. And don't get me started on an MDF building that will take me all weekend to build…

Sure, if I were buying 200 of them I'd have to think again. But for half a dozen that are pre-finished and only need a slight bit of weathering and the odd door stuck on (and especially if, like the monorail station, I can get it for just over £20.00 GBP on eBay) then – for me – it's a very tempting compromise, I have to say. And one I have succumbed to!

I enjoy making buidings and scenery – pretty much all of the buildings on this 28mm Slammers table, for example:

…are either entirely scratched by me or converted from (then Old Crow now ainsty) resin desert buildings.

But to have to do all than in 15mm. Again! Jeeez: I may not live long enough, so the extra £30.00 GBP or £40.00 GBP spent on having half a dozen pre-built seems a good idea to me!

John T

EDIT:

It is these touches I think that make the models better, and John is very good at visually appealling toys.

Thank you kindly sir!

Some beautiful work there AB and JT !

That monorail station really did turn out to look quite spectacular and those Kato buildings are to die for but way out of my gaming budget, i am also a big fan of stowage on my military vehicles when i get my camera out i will take a few snaps of my Brigade Apollo tanks which im using as light Scorpion tanks or the Sci-fi equivalent they are over burdened with all sorts of stowage mainly from H&R alas they still need a coat of paint though…

That monorail station really did turn out to look quite spectacular

Thanks Avamango

I got the station second hand on ebay so it wasn't too bad. The lego I was gifted for another project (it is actually a cheaper 'knock off' and not quite as good as Lego [slightly bigger gaps between the bricks let moulding rubber out, as my mate Brian found out, when doing resin casting] but make for good 'blockwork' when you actually want the Army painter dip to run into those same gaps!).

Keep an eye on ebay if you're keen and on a budget (but don't bid against me, obviously!!!)

John T

As previusly mentioned, I was awaiting some Rebel Miniatures minis for this force and they duly arrived.

After a little clean up, I painted them over the festive period via the quick Army Painter dip method: Skeletal Bone primer with various colours applied over the top for detail, including some mid-brown patch camo on the lighter, half armoured troops (that almost entirely vanished under the Strong Tone dip).

More pics of the finished troops here link

John Treadaway

Those are really cool minis… are the ones of the left conversions?

No they are Rebel Minis Homeguard figures

Love them on the left. I'd use them as my future war USA troops.

Keith

AA

As has been said, Mr H – they are straight out of the packet Home Guard

John T

Ah, very cool I had only seen the ones with the space helmets

ALSO, John T, would you mind going over a little on the techniques you used to weather the buildings. I have started using mine, and I'm worried the shiny plastic won't take paint well. Did you guys prime, or varnish yours first?