"1/72 scale == 20mm == How tall?" Topic

When I divide 6 feet, or 72 inches, by 72, to render the proper scale, I come up with 1 inch, which is equal to 25.4 mm, not 20 mm. I love 1/72 scale figures, but to me, it's a lie that it is an accurate scale (see math listed in first sentence…). At 20 mm, and 1/72 scale, it works out that a 20 mm tall figure is only 4' 9" tall. Add in 6", if this measurement is to the eyes, and your 20 mm figure is still only 5' 3" tall. Maybe that works, but it still leaves me wondering what the sculptors think the average height should be? For me, 4' 9" to 5' 3", is a bit on the short side, but I live in the USA, so maybe the rest of the world is closer to 5' tall, on average?

1/72 figures usually range around 23mm and 24mm. 20mm metals and 1/72 plastics are not quite the same size. The reviews on Plastic Soldier Review give the exact height of each set.

I've noticed and wondered about that too.

20mm is near enough equivalent to 1/76.
1/72 is nearer 25mm.

Up until the 20th century the average height should be 5'7". (Found on Wikipedia, but I don't have the reference to hand)

Most of the 20mm i have seem to be a better match to 1/76 than 1/72. However in recent years 1/72 plastics,particularly Italeri have been suffering from upwards scale creep in the figures with rather strangely, a downwards creep in the weapons. Most noticeable in the Russian winter set where hulking brutes have itty-bitty PPSh's

20mm was originally how 1/87 (which is the correct scale relation for standard gauge track) or 'HO scale' the scale associated with HO gauge track in the U.S., figures were described. The British put 1/76 scale trains on HO gauge track so they describe 1/76 as HO/OO.

If that's not convoluted enough the scale associated with 'O' gauge in Britain is 1/43.5 (40mm)(which is the correct scale relation to standard gauge track) but in the U.S. it's 1/48.

You are confusing apples and oranges.

mm is a size, ususally used by wargamers and toy soldier collectors, usually measured from the bottom of the foot to the eye or eye brow.

1/XX is a scale, usually used by model builders, especially by model airplane builders.

guage is a track width used by model train enthusiasts.

Later, people tried to convert one to the other. There is often no direct correlation. The NMRA has a very good standard for trains and the model railroad industry are very good about making things the right size, ratio, and scale.

Most of the rest of model land, wargamers, model builders have few if any standards and over time the same set may be given different designations without any actual change in the model.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek
Bunker Talk blog

mm is a size, ususally used by wargamers and toy soldier collectors, usually measured from the bottom of the foot to the eye or eye brow.

Only since the mid 1980's, before that it described the figure from sole to crown.

guage is a track width used by model train enthusiasts.

model track gauge has a scale relationship to full-sized track, this varies depending on the track being represented. When making scale models of rolling stock and engines, model train manufacturers used different scales, sometimes to conform to different full size track gauges, (narrow, standard, wide) and sometimes as in HO/OO because they thought it looked better.

The earliest figures made for wargaming were made in popular model railroad scales, only later were they described in millimeter heights. This was probably because figures were not being made to scale and they thought describing height would be more accurate. Ironic ain't it?

In my own experience collecting hundreds of metal and plastic figures and kits I've come across some odd contradictions in the 20mm vs 1/76 vs 1/72 world. For example, SHQ figures are seemingly 1/76 but look excellent with Caesar Miniatures plastics that are sold as 1/72. Warmodelling 20mm German and British figures seem a bit big next to the 1/72 Caesar figures, but fit nicely with AB that are listed as 1/76. The Warmodelling Red Army figures I have were originally Fantassin 1/72 metals, but are only slightly taller than my mix of other Red Army figures from Combat and Battlefield. They are noticeably taller than FAA. Another range of figures that look nice with Caesar plastics are CP Models 1/72 metals, but they seem a wee bit smaller again than AB that are 1/76.

Don't think about it too much, you'll give yourself a stroke.

Agreed. In the early days 25mm figures were 1/72 scale, because they were measured from sole to crown, as T Meier states, and the average height of a man was figured as 6' (so your math works out). Although, even then there were differences. For instance, Grenadier stated that their 30mm-tall figures were 25mm figures, because their standard was 5' = 25mm, so a 6-foot man was 30mm high (but they didn't say they were 1/72).

Then came scale creep, heroic-scaled figures (partly a result of scale creep) and the nonsense about measuring to the eye, and the whole situation became muddied beyond belief.

I demand a complete redesignation of the subject worldwide, starting from Jan 1st 2013 and enforced by the UN, with manufacturers given 1 month to sell off old stock. The official SCALES (no heights) will be 1/300, 1/200, 1/150, 1/100, 1/75, 1/50 and 1/25. I have spoken.

[Time for my medication I notice.]

Do not, however, try to mix 1/72nd scale '25mm' vehicles with modern '25mm' figures.

Anyway, as mentioned above, Plastic Soldier Review has some good descriptions of the various sizes, how they map onto to scales and also the convoluted history of things like OO/HO scale.

Back in the good old Charles Grants 'Battle' days 40 years ago I would happily mix Airfix figures with Roco tanks, just like he did. Dear god, is it that long ago….

The problem with scale is that everybody does as he pleases. If you have a mechanical part and you scale it down there should be little room for error, just look at the flame wars about the proper scale thickness of the rubber rim on a Sherman wheel in 1/35th scale and discover that nobody can agree on simple mathematics.

And even if you scale down a human, what's your average human ? 6 foot ? 170 cm, 111 1/17th nano-cubits ? Do you measure to the eyes or the crown or the top of the grenadier's funny hat ? What happens when the man is bending over or kneeling ?

And finally you have those who desire built-in exclusivity in their range and make figures that are differently scaled so that they don't match another manufacturer.

To answer the OP, I have happily mixed 1/72nd, 1/76th and 20mm without anybody ever trying to tear off my face like a rabid chimpanzee. Some models did have some serious discrepancies (the infamous Hasegawas E8 Sherman) and 1/87th doesn't look quite right for "20mm"

My life lesson is that "close enough is good enough" when it comes to miniatures.

First, convert 6-feet to millimeters. You get 1,828.8. So, a 20mm figure is actually about 1/90 scale. But I think 1/72 scale armor looks better with 20mm than 25mm. Each to his own I suppose.

what's your average human ? 6 foot ? 170 cm, 111 1/17th nano-cubits ? Do you measure to the eyes or the crown or the top of the grenadier's funny hat ? What happens when the man is bending over or kneeling ?

You can get a sufficiently accurate answer to those questions and more, such as the range of variation, if you care to look but as you say, you can't get people to agree about simple math.

Some simple math.

20mm at 1/72 = 4'8.7" if this were taken as 'to the eyes' overall height would be at most 5'3".

20mm at 1/76 = almost 5' which if taken as to the eyes gives an overall height of 5'4.5" at most.

20mm at 1/87 = 5'8.5" , Which is (not coincidentally) the average height of a European man until the mid-20th century. If this were taken as to the eyes it would make the overall height at least 6'1".

Around 1974? Minifigs catalogue defined 25mm as 6'.

Incidentally, I note Airfix now describe their tanks/planes as 1/72nd, as I recall they used to call them 1/76th.

as I recall they used to call them 1/76th.

They called them 'HO/OO' that is OO (1/76) scale trains running on HO (1/87) track, a common British model railroad convention. This was to mean the figures were compatible with 1/76.

To eye level or top of the head? Anyway I don't care. Scale anarchy.

And the old HMA (Historical Miniatures Association) based in Austin, TX used to have tournaments for 18mm figures. Why? As Tom says, they used to measure to the crown, so newer figure lines measured even taller, hence the 18mm designation. Mind you, this was before the proliferation of what we would call 18mm figures these days such as AB, Old Glory, etc.