Balin Shortstuff | 17 Dec 2012 11:37 a.m. PST |
It's not Heinleins' book. link |
altfritz | 17 Dec 2012 11:42 a.m. PST |
Trademarks can be contested and struck down. I'd be happy to see GW lose this one! |
Cornelius | 17 Dec 2012 11:42 a.m. PST |
I shall continue my boycott of the GW company |
David Manley | 17 Dec 2012 11:47 a.m. PST |
Sounds about as sensible as Virgin trying to close down long established businesses in Australia that had the word "Virgin" in their names :/ |
Huscarle | 17 Dec 2012 11:48 a.m. PST |
GW are in this instance a bunch of arses, and I sincerely hope that they get burned on this
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billthecat | 17 Dec 2012 11:49 a.m. PST |
Ditto what Cornelius said
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jgawne | 17 Dec 2012 11:55 a.m. PST |
Actually I seem to recall a miniatures wargame called Space Marines long before GW. This is just plain stupid and I wish someone had the balls ot take it to court. Especially as Amazon sets a crappy precident for any more claims such as this int he future. Anyone want to tradmark 'teenage vampire?' |
jpattern2 | 17 Dec 2012 11:58 a.m. PST |
As has been stated on TMP before, companies *must* aggressively protect their copyrights in every instance or risk losing them altogether. GW may be a bunch of arses and it may be stupid, but there you go. |
tekhammer | 17 Dec 2012 11:58 a.m. PST |
Yeah, but contesting trademarks in court is costly. That's why big companies go after the little guys who can't defend themselves. |
Balin Shortstuff | 17 Dec 2012 12:00 p.m. PST |
"Space Marines", 1977, by A. Mark Ratner. I have a copy. |
elsyrsyn | 17 Dec 2012 12:02 p.m. PST |
As has been stated on TMP before, companies *must* aggressively protect their copyrights in every instance or risk losing them altogether. GW may be a bunch of arses and it may be stupid, but there you go. But must they attempt to protect their rights where clearly none such rights exist? I'm as opposed to IP theft as anyone, but that (having not read the work in question) appears to be the case here. Doug |
Jovian1 | 17 Dec 2012 12:04 p.m. PST |
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Chef Lackey Rich | 17 Dec 2012 12:04 p.m. PST |
Odds are very good that a competent lawyer could successfully contest their trademark. As Balin pointed out, they did not originate the term. The question is more a matter of who wants to pry the trademark away from them enough to spend the money to do so? |
Meiczyslaw | 17 Dec 2012 12:19 p.m. PST |
I'm as opposed to IP theft as anyone
I am becoming less opposed as IP trolls dominate the "legal" practice. |
Sundance | 17 Dec 2012 12:21 p.m. PST |
So
no one ever, ever used the term Space Marine before GW came along? And how can you copyright a phrase like that? This is just another example of ridiculousness. |
15th Hussar | 17 Dec 2012 12:45 p.m. PST |
Sounds about as sensible as Virgin trying to close down long established businesses in Australia that had the word "Virgin" in their names There are that many in Australia to make a difference, are there? |
Shagnasty | 17 Dec 2012 12:47 p.m. PST |
Once again GW proves it's reputation is well earned. |
KTravlos | 17 Dec 2012 1:08 p.m. PST |
Man I love their products but I really really hate their lawyers (why do you buy them then sonny
oh bitter folly of unfulfilled childish wants!) . This is stupid and I hope they get fried in court. |
Parzival | 17 Dec 2012 1:08 p.m. PST |
So
no one ever, ever used the term Space Marine before GW came along? And how can you copyright a phrase like that? This is just another example of ridiculousness. You can't copyright it. Nor, to be fair, is that what GW claims. GW claims a trademark on the term, which is an entirely different animal. Frankly, though, I think this constitutes an excessive claim on GW's part. The likelihood of trademark confusion is virtually nil, and I think they'd have a hard time pressing the idea that the author is trading off their trademark or IP (especially given that they're largely trading off someone else's idea— or a whole lot of somebodies' ideas, from Heinlein and on). I'd be curious as to what a court would make of it. INAL,NDIPOOTV, but I suspect this trademark could get broken if it came before a judge or jury. |
vojvoda | 17 Dec 2012 1:22 p.m. PST |
What next no books with Star or Wars in the title? I will burn my mouse ears if it comes to that! VR James Mattes |
Mick A | 17 Dec 2012 1:29 p.m. PST |
I think everyone should change their forum names to end 'the Space Marine' :o) Mick the Space Marine |
Mako11 | 17 Dec 2012 1:48 p.m. PST |
Rather silly of them, and of Amazon. Someone is probably going to make a lot of money off this, and I doubt it will be GW. I support the GW Boycott too. |
palaeoemrus | 17 Dec 2012 2:28 p.m. PST |
How do you get much trademark protection for "Warhammer" anyway? I got an idea for a new table top wargame set in classical times. It's called "Spear". |
tekhammer | 17 Dec 2012 2:45 p.m. PST |
I got an idea for a graphical operating system called "Icons". |
Meiczyslaw | 17 Dec 2012 2:50 p.m. PST |
I got an idea for a graphical operating system called "Icons". What? Not "iCons?" |
corporalpat | 17 Dec 2012 3:15 p.m. PST |
Sounds like one more reason to boycott GW. |
Parzival | 17 Dec 2012 3:23 p.m. PST |
Prediction: GW will announce that they are granting the author a "limited" license for the use of the term for the author's books (and only books). This effectively publicly reasserts GW's claim to the TM without opening up a backdoor for competitors or risking having the claim struck down completely in court. (In any case, that would be my advice to GW, because otherwise this situation is both horrible PR and legally risky.) |
FingerandToeGlenn | 17 Dec 2012 4:13 p.m. PST |
What y'all have forgotten is that Games Workshop is a law firm with a sideline in miniatures. |
Dark Knights And Bloody Dawns | 17 Dec 2012 4:21 p.m. PST |
Doubt you can use iCons as someone would probably claim a trademark on the "i" Kind regards, Captain Brink of the SPACE MARINES |
Rassilon | 17 Dec 2012 4:29 p.m. PST |
I've stood on the edge of completely despising them for quite awhile now, but this has pushed me over the edge.
and shame on Amazon for so easily kowtowing without some kind of review process first. |
Dan 055 | 17 Dec 2012 5:22 p.m. PST |
I'm in – boycott GW – YAY ps – I'm a SPACE MARINE too |
Legion 4 | 17 Dec 2012 5:40 p.m. PST |
No surprise on G/Ws' part
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kreoseus2 | 17 Dec 2012 5:49 p.m. PST |
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Space Monkey | 17 Dec 2012 6:06 p.m. PST |
I hope this one bites them in the ass. Loss of good will. Not that I had much left for them. |
tigrifsgt | 17 Dec 2012 7:08 p.m. PST |
I was thinking about going to the GW shop in Columbus, Ohio. Thinking now I have better places to spend my hard earned bucks. TIG the Space Marine |
clkeagle | 17 Dec 2012 7:27 p.m. PST |
What y'all have forgotten is that Games Workshop is a law firm with a sideline in miniatures Quoted for truth. If GW downsized their legal department by 50% and used those funds to run events for their veteran gaming community, they'd probably retain five times as many customers as they currently do. Which would instantly lead to a huge spike in sales, as a veteran is far more likely to buy additional armies or games than a beginner. -Chris the Space Marine |
Ratbone | 17 Dec 2012 10:40 p.m. PST |
Funny I don't hear a lot of support for the companies that have lost money by allowing others to take a piece of their action. I also remember hearing most of this same group complain about books and movies coming out at the same time as "real" versions. It took World Wildlife Foundation ten or fifteen years to get World Wrestling Federation to stop using it's simple logo of the letters "W W F." The former proved that the latter dragged away a lot of money from them over the years. I distinctly remember a lot of folks figuring they were making a big deal out of nothing. |
ajbartman | 17 Dec 2012 10:44 p.m. PST |
Haven't bought any GW in several years and I glad. Bart the Space Marine |
krieghund | 17 Dec 2012 11:24 p.m. PST |
If you say "Space Marine" three times do GW's lawyers appear?. Krieghund the Space Marine. |
basileus66 | 17 Dec 2012 11:33 p.m. PST |
In the grim darkness of the far future there are only lawsuits. |
ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa | 18 Dec 2012 12:02 a.m. PST |
If the book was 'grim dark' and if it featured 'space marines' who were biomechanically modified super soldiers who live in pseudo-religious orders and fight for a God-Emperor then I think they might have had a case. Otherwise this is just major stupid spill in the management conference room, which unfortunately affects the life of a third party. (I do suspect I know why they made the decision, but I think they need to check their legal advice.) If you say "Space Marine" three times do GW's lawyers appear?. Yes they do, but its more fun to say 'chaos' three times because GW's lawyers appear followed by Michael Moorcock's lawyers who just stare at the GW one's meaningfully until they look embarrassed and sidle off. |
John Treadaway | 18 Dec 2012 3:06 a.m. PST |
The problem is the same problem that always crops up with bullies. They don't have to be right. They don't have to be fair. They just have to be bigger than you to get their own way. I know of one previous instance of this very thing happening with GW (though I'm sure there are many more). GW said (in so many words) "yeah, we may lose long term but our lawyers are bigger than your lawyers and we'll wreck you in the process". And so the guy stopped calling his product Space Marines, even though he had the right to do so. If you supp with the devil, you'd best use a long spoon. Space Marine John Treadaway |
palaeoemrus | 18 Dec 2012 3:14 a.m. PST |
"Yes they do, but its more fun to say 'chaos' three times because GW's lawyers appear followed by Michael Moorcock's lawyers who just stare at the GW one's meaningfully until they look embarrassed and sidle off." I hear that Disney is thinking of buying Michael Moorcock. And Florida. |
flicking wargamer | 18 Dec 2012 5:44 a.m. PST |
link Seems Mr. Ratner could make a lot of money if he wanted to. |
Patrick R | 18 Dec 2012 6:17 a.m. PST |
Right or wrong, it's a legal matter and the better lawyers who can sell the better story to the judge wins. GW's use of the name Space Marine is firmly established as a clear and definite trademark. People like Ratner have done zilch with their "property" so GW would simply crush them in court. It doesn't matter if GW invented it or not, they have cornered the market with the term, so much so that if somebody else uses the term they could be regarded as riding on the coattails of GW. Trademark is there to protect the interests of a company, they have every right to protect an established trademark, even if it sounds like a big company is bullying a small author. Do a google image search for Space Marine, it's page after page of GW stuff almost exclusively. I don't think there is any contest about the weight of GW's trademark claim. |
gweirda | 18 Dec 2012 7:40 a.m. PST |
Do a google image search for Space Marine
" True, but add the all-important "beer" to the phrase/search and look what's first
; ) |
Stealth1000 | 18 Dec 2012 9:19 a.m. PST |
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nazrat | 18 Dec 2012 9:42 a.m. PST |
Meh. It matters not a whit, except to those who revel in getting incredibly wound up about ANYTHING GW does. Ignore them and life will be so much better for you. |
Ping Pong | 18 Dec 2012 10:52 a.m. PST |
I'm not protesting, I just want to be a space marine. |
tekhammer | 18 Dec 2012 11:51 a.m. PST |
Meh. It matters not a whit, except to those who revel in getting incredibly wound up about ANYTHING GW does. Ignore them and life will be so much better for you. It probably matters to the guy having his book withdrawn. Why do you think letting people trademark generic terms is acceptable? If they continue to do it, then it'll affect future writers. I don't write software because I fear software patents. They're ridiculous, they're too broad, and they are given to people for the stupidest reasons, simply because the patent office is too scared of being sued. If I write stories, and it features marines in space, I can't call them Space Marines because I will be sued or have my book withdrawn. What sort of a future is that? It stifles creativity and it shows the world that dollars trump good sense. So this isn't just about GW. There's a bigger picture that needs to be considered. A picture that will colour the future of your hobby. Try taking an interest. |