"At what point does scale blur out details for you?" Topic

I'm working on Crimean War in 10mm right now and not all of the troop types I want are available but I'm finding drop-ins for them in other ranges. My tolerance for what I'll use in 10mm is a lot broader than it would be in 28mm and probably even in 15mm.

So what scale level does the detail on a figure not matter so much and at what level of detail. You probably wouldn't ever use a 6mm space marine as a 6mm Jacobite cavalry man but you might not mind that the bayonet scabbard is on the wrong side when you are going to paint some 10mm French as Isabellino infantry from the carlist war.

The first time I heard the term "painting conversion" was on the Baccus 6mm forum. I think it is definitely possible.

2mm and I am happy to use a generic musketeer as French, British, Austrian soliders etc.
Models are still recognisable as having muskets, so just paint the uniforms correctly and good enough.
6mm upwards and I want them to be as accurate as possibe, no proxies at 6mm or above.

Ahem, I've done 'paint conversions' on 54mm figures and been happy with the results….

I think the usual comments about stand-ins apply – it depends how particualr you are, which varies with period e.g. I'll happily use my Gauls as any old 'barbarian with pointy stick', but the idea of using 1943 Germans in 1942 gives me heart palpitations.

For periods I care about, I start carving figures around once I get to 15mm. 6mm I've done the most hideous subsitutions, and for 2mm the stuff is so generic you can do almost anything although I do convert vehicles (e.g. turning Warriors into Scimitars)

The first time I heard the term 'paint conversion' was back in the '70s and it applied to painting up 20mm Airfix French Napoleonic as all manner of Shako wearing European troops.

For me, these days, I think I'm with AB: 6mm is sufficiently detailed and 'crisp' that I'd use a knife and/or a patch of 'greenstuff' rather than just a splodge of paint. Smaller than 6mm I do think the little guys become generic …

Phil

I'm generally a "close enough" kind of guy. My 1809 french time travel freely from 1805-1815. My WW2 Germans from 1939-1945. My Panzer IVs only come in two variants: long barrel gun and short barrel gun.

I would never care if the scabbard is on the wrong side.

I am pretty small c catholic when it comes to gaming opportunities – I have, for example, used my Warlord era 28mm Chinese for Mexican Federales once

For sure 15mm and under

For me I can get away with doing so in 6mm. I have not tried in 10mm but 15 is out of the question.

VR
James Mates

anything smaller than 1:1 looses detail.

"6mm upwards and I want them to be as accurate as possibe, no proxies at 6mm or above"

So you wouldn't proxy a 6mm Napoleonic Brit for an 1812 American for example?

Ignorance is bliss. Those blue guys-they're the French, right? Or are they the Prussians advancing on Plancenoit?

6mm is ok.Anything smaller is not for me.

Depends on if I'm wearing my glasses

"Those blue guys-they're the French, right? Or are they the Prussians advancing on Plancenoit?"

I sometimes use my 1815 Prussians as stand-ins for French if I am short of figures.

Oh the horror….

My poor old Bavarians have been virtuaslly every minor German state known to mankind.

Two ways at looking at this
One figures in your hand when looking and painting yes you want and do put as much detail as you can too the them.
Two on your wargames table when a figure is over 6 to 12 inches a way from you you can see the main colours of the figure. As with most games you are probably standing up so add in your height as well detail in decreasing even more .
Over 72 inches away I would say I hope they not mine I just dropped a shell on them Ho Po

I've used Napoleonic Spanish as Austrians – white coats on both, after all.
So long as it is clear what the figures represent, I don;t have a problem with stand-ins.

I´m happy to read this discussion because I am in the middle of a dilemma. I have a project going for a 1938 Pacific war that requires US infantry in the M1917 helmet. Sadly no one seems to make these figures so I thought I would substitute either WWI US or WWII British(before the turtle helmet, of course ) in 6mm.

But having just received my 10mm ACW figs from Pendraken, I am now totally in love with this scale and am seriously thinking about going in that direction. So the main question is, what figures do you think would be the best substitute at 10mm? For the record I am mostly a naval guy, so I am not such a stickler for fine details.

EDIT: Never mind I forgot about the tanks. I can fudge the tanks at 6mm, but not at 10mm, so that solves my dilemma (what a pity for the worse). So 6mm it will be!

"6mm upwards and I want them to be as accurate as possibe, no proxies at 6mm or above"

So you wouldn't proxy a 6mm Napoleonic Brit for an 1812 American for example?

I am not sure how different they are to be honest.
However if there is a choice of the right figures and the wrong ones, I would not play with the wrong ones unless it was a one off.
However I don't do one offs so if I were doing 1812 American thingies I would start with the right ones even if I already owned suitable proxies.
I do not have an issue with those that do this, this is my choice and that is theirs.
Aslong as we all know what things are meant to be then all is good.

Michael.

I guess I was more talking about the bare lead figures than playing with already painted figures of that period.

So if there were bare lead and the figures were similar but not exactly the same as what you wanted to use, but what you wanted to use was not available what scale and lack of detail would you feel comfortable painting them as is without converting them?

In the example above Napoleonic British are very similar in Uniform to American 1812. So similar that I would probably use the plastic Perry british as Americans in 28mm.

Ah, well that is where my answer is of no use I suspect.

If I wanted something that was not available I would either not play it, or as with my 6mm sci-fi get it all made myself.

However an exception is that at 2mm, I have used generic musketeers as both French and British.

So then at 6mm for you the detail on the uniform has to be correct or you would not play with it?

So, for example, probably not every type of troop is available exactly correctly for the WSS in 6mm. You would not do a battle where the correct type of dragoon for a given army isn't made or would make it yourself?

I'm not trying to disparage this if it sounds like I am I am just curious.

As correct as possible. (to my knowledge that is)
If the uniform has bits missing due to sculpting issues at 6mm then fair enough, but if the troops had incorrect hats (belgic vs stovepipe shako, tricorne vs bicorne for example) I would not want to use them.
If I needed them for a one off battle I would borrow someones incorrect troops but would not buy and paint them.

However, I only play 1 genre/era at a time and as such I have no need to use proxies as I tend to check out what is available before I start.

This of course only really applies to historical, for sci-fi which is now my thing you can use whatever you like if the setting is your own as no-one will know what is what.
Along the same lines, whilst I would like to play 6mm Star Wars I will not as there are not any official miniatures.
There are some unofficial NOT Star Wars out there, but I try to avoid them.
I would not use something close and paint them white and call them Stormtroopers for example, I would rather not play at all.

Oh, and for your WSS example, I would not do that battle.

I am more than happy to chat via e-mail if you like?

'pends if I've got me glasses on!

John T