"hospitallers- red or black?" Topic

Were the knights hospitaller shields/surplices black or red? I've seen illustrations depicting both colors.

Yes.

At the same time or did the colors change at some point?

Changed at some point. Later crusader – black. Rhodes – red. Need more research though.

I am just being a smart aleck.
I have tried to research them in the past, and got just as confused as you.
This was using WRG's Crusades book, too.

It is a 13th Century change I believe, but red on flags and pennons seems to come in earlier. When any theoretical change becomes actual is likely to be difficult to pinpoint, of course …*

Phil
*the military orders do sometimes seem short of material for 'uniforms'.

Hi,

Before 1248 black, after red by papal degree of innocent IV.
High offices continure to wear black for ceremonies.

Later also distinction between katholic and reformed knights, therefore the confusion.

Has to do with the princibels like " to the death (black) suffering like jesus (red) and the 8 duties marked by the 8 points of the cross of st. John.

Banner alway inverted inorder to separate from templars. Templars red with black banner on right flank, st. John black, with red banner on left flank.

Paintingwise: hattin all black, acre mixed. Surcoat to the knees always black, short surtout rather red.

Greetings and have fun

PS: I was knighted KOM in valetta in october 2012. Everyone wore black.
:) i can post pictures if needed.

Yes please – how cool is that?!

The eight pointed Cross of Amalfi didn't come in until Malta, or so I beleive