"Meteoric Rise of Infinity?" Topic

I noticed one of the video newscasts lauding the "meteoric rise" of Infinity (and praising one of their new releases as perhaps the finest mini ever sculpted)…

Really?

Anyone else noticed a rising wave of interest in Infinity? Is it more of a UK thing?

I've seen a lot of stock being moved in AU, and heck I own a lot of the haqqislam range but I've never played a game in my life, and doubt I will (using the figs for other systems).

No one is playing at the 3 stores or in the "gamer society" club in my area (from San Diego north to Oceanside)

I think it is more popular now than when it was new. I guess going from 0 to a handful of people mentioning it to me in a year is somewhat meteoric.

What's Infinity?

Thanks,

John

Seen it played in Northwest Arkansas as well as the Malifaux game.

Don't meteors tend to fall (ultimately becoming meteorites)?

On topic, I've seen it carried and mentioned at LGSs but never seen it played.

They have some nice sculpts, but most of the models I own have some pretty nasty casting that really require a lot of cleanup. More than what I'd expect for a model of that price.

What's Infinity?

1/0, he said helpfully.

I like a few of their figs, but their pricing is too high for me to afford them.

They certainly have made some consistently great sculpts and hired excellent painters. AFAIK, the range is still going strong. They're are on the 2nd edition of the rules and now a campaign book. There's a handful of fans that seem to love the game. I'd opt for "Steady" over "Meteoric"

I own a handful of the figs, but the LGS doesn't carry it, never heard of anyone here playing it. Maybe it's a UK/EU thing?

A few of us play here in Idaho. All the rules are available free from their website as a down laod, you can proxy any miniature, there are tutorials and a wiki of rules and definitions. So its basically free. The rules allow for actions in reply to your opponents actions. The ranges reflect modern weaponary. I have several forces. The new book contains scenarios and a campaign system.

link

I thought this was another one of those science threads that have been hurting my head this evening.

One of the local game stores moves through some product. Saying that it has a meteoric rise doesn't seem to describe the situation very accurately. It is a good game, I think the best small skirmish game out there, but to say that it is growing quickly seems to be over estimating its chances.

Here in Central Maryland, there is a game store in Glen Burnie Maryland that actually sells Infinity minis and rule books and people do play it.
I can't get there on the days they do play, so am not sure how many people play.
I like the rules and have played it before, but will use the minis with Tomorrows War rules instead.
Joe

Local game store here in Eastern PA stocks the starters, but I have yet to see anyone playing. I own a Nomads starter…

Damon.

I like them but there are some things that hold it… terribly incomplete range, terrain requirements, and some people may see it as too gamey. Also, there's no way the majority of players can paint half as good as they want. The miniatures are small, difficult to paint, and if you mess up it will look worse than when you mess up on heroic 28mm. There's a reason for all those chunky body parts…

It was here 2 years ago and now it's dead.

It is more popular in Europe and parts of the UK.

Looks to be rather popular in Finland, especially given it's a hardish scifi game (fantasy games have been historically more popular here AFAIK), but I'm not sure if it's on the rise or in decline hereabouts. Some avid gamers keep making noises about it but they are obviously just the vocal minority. And it doesn't mean much in regards to the worldwide sales obviously even if it were the most popular minis game in these parts.

I've never heard of it…

Hmmm. I like the figures, but I don't want to get into it. Squad level games don't appeal too much to me unless it's a game of Killteam. I'd probably get a few of the figures for use as named characters in my own bastardized combination of various universes. Even then, they'd have to come from a discounter. Those prices make GW look like a bargain!

While a local game store has it, I have not seen it played.
But I do have the rules and some of the (pricey) models.
And I would love to give it a go.

It did the two year rise and fall locally.

Those prices make GW look like a bargain!

Not if GW were to revisit Necromunda, which is basically the same conflict scale as Infinity. When you don't need more than 20 minis there is no bulk purchasing, and no economy of scale for the manufacturer.

I haven't seen any evidence of some trend above the ordinary with Infinity. For the most part what I've seen and heard it falls into the secondary game slot along with games such as Malifaux, Dust, GW's Specialist range, etc. Like all secondary games it gets played occasionally but not regularly and most players don't buy more than a small force with no plan or desire for more than that.

The big killer for Infinity is terrain. You do need a LOT of terrain. Not like 40k or WarmaHordes, where you can have ~6 pieces of terrain on the table. No, you need an entire city on the table, ~12 buildings and probably a dozen cars and another dozen various 'scatter terrain' items.

What has really helped Infinity grow is the models and now the Campaign book. Scenarios that aren't kill-em-all!

@Wolfprophet: I only field 10 minis at a time. any given army is under $100 USD, unless I have a TAG, motorcycles, or 'bots.

I've seen no one in my neck of the woods (southern Wisconsin) play it, and I'm certainly not going to be Patient Zero. In my mind it has everything I've come to loathe in sci-fi/fantasy miniatures gaming: Expensive 'official' models that pretty much can't be used anywhere else (I'm looking at their website right now and they've got a single 28mm figure going for fifteen Euros? Seriously?) an almost generic background (hi-tech Japanese fighting High-tech Europeans? Gee, THAT'S never been done before!) and the inevitable power creep and Codex-of-the-week. No thanks.

Expensive 'official' models that pretty much can't be used anywhere else

While I'm no big fan of the game or its prices, saying that they can't be used in other rules sets is just wrong. The majority of their guys-with-guns figs will fit into 28mm Stargrunt, Tomorrow's War, GRUNTZ, ShockForce, Blaster & Bulkheads, etc, etc with ease. The drones even show up in 15mm and sometimes 6mm scifi forces as larger combots or walker vehicles. There are certainly cheaper options out there, but buying an Infinity force with an eye toward using it in multiple game systems is certainly doable, and might make the bill a bit less painful at the end of the day.

Of course you can use 'Infinity' miniatures for any game system you want! I can't see why anybody would, given the GWesque pricing and the some of the ridiculous poses/spandex cat-girl costumes (Plasma-rifle, sports-bra, and assless pants, yeah… of course this probably boosts sales in reality…)
From what I hear, the rules are good, but the game is too tied to its own range of miniatures for inventive and open-minded players (who end up using other generic rule sets with the miniatures and worlds of their choice) and not 40K enough to really take a bite out of the entrenched GW market. Proxying Infinity miniatures would be possible, but difficult.
'Power creep and Codex-of-the-month'--naturally. Not for me, but probably an added bonus for the mainstream FLGS/40K crowd.
As far as 'meteoric rise'… aside from the fact that meteors do fall, not rise, this is obviously a bit of not-so-sly (possibly second-hand) propoganda.

Of course you can use 'Infinity' miniatures for any game system you want!

I can always use more variety for Rezolution.

They just kept adding 1, and it never stopped…

I would wonder, instead of anecdotal evidence as offered by the posts on this thread, that perhaps the original podcast has access to sales numbers?

Unfortunately the only info I can personally find is ICv2 which is only the top 5. link

and the inevitable power creep and Codex-of-the-week. No thanks.

??? Where do you get that idea?

The release of Human Sphere (the second book) did not invalidate any previous models. Half of the models that are most often used in the Sectorial armies were released in the first book.

The third book, Campaign Paradiso, introduced an average of 2 new units and a character, with some revised profiles/equipment to another unit. FOUR units for most of the armies. Aleph got a whole pile of units to establish the 'Assault Subsection' aka the Steel Phalanx, and there was a new race introduced.

I will buy different, but not better.

NOrmaly if one has actual figures they use them, rather than sweeping statements like meteioric. Besides what is meant by that? Going from 5 sets of rules and figures a month to 50 sets a month could well be meteoric, but still not that widespread.

Not much interest around here anyway. Or rather not much at my FLGS anyway.

Owen

Tho the Editor doesn't mention who the video newscast was from (and so I won't either), the party who fairly obviously is responsible for it isn't exactly known for being the epitome of objectivity. More @ Igor Olman -level fanibois of "it must be mine!" type who most likely on the top of that get freebies for lauding things on the 'net. So if they say "meteoric" and "bestest evah!" and whatnot, it's supposed to be taken with all the seriousness you take any advertising talk -- that's largely what it is after all, coupled with general enthusiasm for select few things, most notably all things with "Warhammer" in their name d-:)

I have one buddy who plays with one other buddy of his…that's all I've heard or seen, but then I don't get to game nearly as much as I'd like. Personally have absolutely ZERO interest, having watched some demo videos of the game.

TurnStyle, what don't you like about the game?

I'm not trying to pick on you (and try to convince you to play necessarily), I'm just curious as to why you don't like the game. Too small scale? Too much terrain?

To me, it looked a bit too 40K-ish, in it's tournament looking style play. Also looks like an emotionless game, just pretty miniatures. Nothing I've seen appeals to me. Sure it has a few nice sculpts, but you know that feeling in the pit of your stomach when you see something and think "Oh yeah, I don't need that…but I want it". None of that going on. None at all.

Emotionless is as emotionless does, but I don't really see Infinity as a tournament style game mechanicswise. Unless you count point values for troops and some force creation restrictions as "tournament style" of course. The new Paradiso book brings in some pre-made scenarios and a campaign into the mix but otherwise it's been fairly "make up what you want" in that regard.

I have noticed that Infinity does have more exposure then before, more folks are interested in playing, but if that directly translates well into more sales I really don't know. There's also the fact that a lot of folks that went into Infinity some time ago started selling their minis to new players.

Personally I like a lot of their miniatures, imho they are not more expensive then their GW counterparts. Haven't bought any, though, just have many other things that are higher on the priority list…

It seems to be getting some traction in my vicinity; a friend and I were both looking at it, and found out that the game store in Durham (Atomic Empire) has a dozen or so people playing fairly regularly. I've grabbed a starter and some boxes and plan to get started this winter, as is my friend.

I had the opposite of TurnStyle's experience – I saw a box of the hardsuited infantry, and the tiny snippet of fluff on the back of the box about them being condemned convict types (this was a box of the Wu Ming) made me an instant convert!

It's been gaining popularity online. It's like an internet cult now.

As for the minis, they are fantastic. Quite possibly the best miniatures produced.

The rules are neat, bit over the top, the excessive use of terrain is a bit of a downer to me. Along with the excessive use of true line of sight.

Hey look, I can see you guy through the 4 sets of windows.

BANG

I would like to add (edit button is being stupid… or my internet?)

The excessive use of terrain makes the game feel more like game taking place in a labyrinth.

There's lots of misconceptions and assumptions in this thread by people whom haven't played before.

I agree that the miniatures are overpriced, but you don't need that many of them so you can get a starting force for under $100. USD Unlike GW, all of the rules are army lists are FREE. There is also no super unit that can wipe the table as everything is vulnerable.

It is terrain dense, but that makes it more realistic IMO, too many games I see have very nice miniatures but dissappointing terrain.

The core mechanics are fairly simple, but I do think the rules have gotten a bit too dense with all the special weapons and special rules.

As for it's rise I agree it's been steady, not meteoric, helped along with the new releases. I think it has followed the trend of gaming in general becoming more mainstream.

Agree with JJ, I started playing with a rules PDF and some random GW minis. The rules and terrain are steep requirements… I took one look at the rules a few years back and thought nah. I wanted something simple. But when I did get into it, it was quite rewarding. The game is cinematic and tense, although when a new rules question crops up it can hold the game up. Choice of player is important in this regard. And sure, the prices are more expensive than GW… but I can collect a functioning army for $100. USD And then buy more figures for variety.

I don't know why people are complaining that this is another evil money-grabbing corporation. The newer sculpts are the best I've seen anywhere, and I like my high-end sculpts. They are a nightmare to assemble, especially the older ones, but they have pushed the envelope of my painting skills. And I don't have to work night after night to get a playable army together. The online community is probably the best there is for any gaming system, and there's a searchable rules wiki, rules re-edits for clarity, unit cards, army builders and so on.

Certainly with Infinity I am getting far more bang for my gaming buck and I have not touched my 40K. It's like Guinness. Not everybody likes it. That's fine. But we like it. And nobody is interested in being open-minded with rules and minis where I am. My 15mm has done nothing, along with my Battlestar Galactica ships. Oh, they'll be happy to proxy them for BFG – but what is this "Full Thrust" and "Dirt Side" you speak of?

As for codex creep and power creep… sorry guys, but what are you talking about? For a start there aren't any codexes and all units use the same set of special rules.

It isn't the next 40K, never will be. It's the Guinness of SF skirmish wargames, and I've no problem with it being that way.

I feel like I should post again here too, now that I've played my first demo game of Infinity. A very kind gamer at a near-ish store ran a 150-pt demo for me and my primary minis gaming opponent last Thursday, and we both had a blast. Karl (the guy demo-ing for us) built us two fairly straightforward lists with a minimum of special rules and set up a nice table covered with buildings. By the 2nd turn both of us felt like we had the basic mechanisms of the game down, and began to concentrate on actually playing each other. We both really liked the dense terrain, and how you had to use it to succeed. We also enjoyed the skirmish scale of the game, something that was new for both of us. My friend commented that it was a minis game that felt in some ways similar to playing a first-person shooter.
We also felt that the reaction mechanics, that allow you to shoot, move, etc if one of your minis can see an opponent's acting mini, were very fun and made the game more tense. As much as I like Heavy Gear, Infinity's reaction order system seems like a definite step up over HG's reaction fire rules.

Anyway, we're both hooked, and are in the middle of building our starter boxes (Aleph for him, Imperial Service for me) and hoping to get another learner game in this Thursday. I've certainly spent more money on games that were less fun than this one is. Hopefully it'll be successful for a good long time!

This chap like it
link

I like it and I play it.

To address some concerns from Brothersevej

1) terribly incomplete range .
A game that is still in its infancy (5-7 years in English) has a terribly incomplete range of models? GW's flagship is 25 and still doesn't have a complete line either. With each edition, they find new ways to not bring out more models – preferring to redo the old ones so that the faithful buy them all over again.

2) terrain requirements.
Around here, it is the veterans who are adopting the game, not the new-to-gaming-40k-is-bestest-with-no-terrain crowd, so the terrain question is mostly irrelevant. And when it is a noob to gaming who takes it up, he has proven to be a whiz at terrain making. The local 40k players don't even follow their games' recommendation of "25% terrain".

3) and some people may see it as too gamey.
Like no other game also has this problem. OK, it does rely a little more on your opponent NOT being a douchebag – but other games are also more fun if this rule was followed a little more closely. Page 5 is not an excuse to be a d-bag.

4) Also, there's no way the majority of players can paint half as good as they want.
They want? Who wants people to paint like that?
Most gamers I know paint only to satisfy themselves. We can't all be GoldenDemontrophywinners – and a minimalist paintjob can bring out some surprising results.

5) The miniatures are small, difficult to paint, and if you mess up it will look worse than when you mess up on heroic 28mm. There's a reason for all those chunky body parts…

Small? They are taller (and more accurately scaled) than GW's hydrocephalic ham-fisted abominations, so hardly "smaller". Whilst they aren't as stocky, you also DON'T have to paint ALL the detail – unless you have OCD. The good thing about them is they are metal. Which can be easily stripped with aggressive solvents so you can start over. Try that with GWs plastics and you'll have a puddle of goo.

It was a slow grower here three years ago. Now it's booming. Not as big as either PP or GW – but both of those games ARE older, with more established crowds.

40k and fantasy at the larger events are showing a decline in numbers (over here). Quite a few of the people leaving 40k are also forsaking PP and going to infinity.

chromedog 14 Dec 2012 2:14 a.m. PST:

A game that is still in its infancy (5-7 years in English) has a terribly incomplete range of models? GW's flagship is 25 and still doesn't have a complete line either

2 x wrong =/= 1 x right.

But in any case, I do believe that now Raicho is out all of the units from the original Infinity rulebook have at least one model. Probably not everybody has all the possible weapon options tho but that should be amendable with small amount of fairly easy conversion. Be that as it may, can't say this "incompletness" ever bother me much at all.

I love the miniatures, but took a look at the rules and gave up. There is simply too much there. I gave up on Warhammer games, among other reasons, because of all the needless rolls and special rules. I'm old and need things simple now.

Without using the rules, the argument of "you don't need many models to play" doesn't work for me. I like them, so I would buy them, just not at that price point. So end result is no Infinity for me.

took a look at the rules and gave up

In my case it was the quest through the rulebook for something even vaguely remedial regarding force composition. I picked up two of the aliens on a lark (and on sale…) and have no idea, after looking through the PDF, whether these two can be fielded together, what else can or should go with them, or whether they are any good.

Wrong place for the learning curve, guys.