"German Reversible Winter Smock?" Topic

Hi there

I am coming back to 28mm WW2 gaming after many years and am looking at putting together a 1944 era German Panzer Grenadier platoon for user in Europe or Italy.

I particulary like the Artizan figures, especially those in the winter uniform; and therein lies my question.

Whilst I am aware that the reversible smock (and trousers) were made in camouflage (both green splinter & tan water pattern) as well as mouse-grey; I am not sure how widespread the issue of the mouse-grey version was. I would therefore be most interested in anyone had any insights into such.

IIRC the mouse-grey parka was mostly issued to the Waffen-SS before their own camo parkas came into mass production.

That would be relevant if you're talking about parkas. I'm not near my reference books right now but can't recall that there was a reversible mouse-grey/white smock – most winter stuff was not reversible, other than the camo parkas.

Cheers

w.

Yep there was a mouse-grey/white reversible shock (as opposed to parka), which is what the Artizan figures portray. The shock is covered in Brian L Davis's German Army Uniforms and Insignia 1933-1945 book. The plain grey was an alternative to the camp pattern. The book contains a picture of a group of three men all wearing a different type (I.e. green splinter/white, tan water pattern/white and mouse-grey/white. This seems to indicate that they appear to have been issued alongside each other.

Ideally I would like to perhaps have a mix within the platoon, but not if they were issued on a unit by unit basis.

Hi,
You mean for sure the item "gefütterte, wendbare Winterkombination, ausen oliv, innen weiß" of the indroduction order "V.Bl.d.WSS Nr. 19 vom 1. Oktober 1943 "?
This jacket was given to all fighting forces mainly in the Kursk area and around charkow in 42. From 1943 exists than the Parka with pockets.

Please find here a link with the history of reseach and production of camo items:

link

Greetings

Nettes Link, Rudi!

Gern geschehen.
:)

Rudi

My books describe it as "Umkehrbare Winteranzug des deutschen Herres", so I believe that is the one. It is also refrenced in Chris Ellis's book on the German Army. Both note that some smocks were issued in Field Grey of Mouse-Grey.

Do you know if the jacket issued in Europe on the western front (i.e. France & Italy)? Also do you know if these were issued on a unit by unit basis or could there be camo & plain smocks/jackets within say a platoon?

Hi,

Hmmmh…
The "winteranzug" includes the trousers made from same material but not to be reversed. The trousers would not life as long as the jacket so after some time the trousers would be replaced by something at hand.

The literatur says the production would be shipped to units in specific areas… Due to the supply situation. In the weeks after the shipment the units would be nicely uniform in the follwing campain.. That will would than change due to wear and tear and soldiers would wear what is at hand leading to a mix of jackets. That is surly true in bad weather.

A veteran told me that he fought from 43 at tanopol over normandy, arnhem, bulge and budabest in the same camosmok over his grey uniform. No winterjackeds ever seen. And that was a elite unit with high supply priority.

This jacked was not issued or shipped to the western front would be my educated guess. But units which recieved it in the east are transfered for the ardennes offensive to the west and there they would use this uniform.

The chances to see something like it in normandy or in italy are slim to none.

BUT:
If you like the figures with the wendejacke and you want to use the artizan figures ….. Paint them a Gebirgsjaeger in italy.
Make sure they have a lot of fieldcaps and the gamasche und here you go.

link

link

Greetings and have fun

I don't read German… I thought the mouse grey was made by SS manufacturers for SS and then only for a fairly short period. All the picytures I've seen are ostfront SS.

Personally, I would go with cam or white.

The majority of the ardennes troops were new recruits in new suits.

Thanks Rudi

Sounds like they would mostly be used on the eastern front or the Ardennes offensive, in which case they should be the camo pattern.

Thanks for the heads up on the Gebirgsjaeger in Italy. Guess I'll have to rethink what I am going to do and decide once and for all whether it's Italy or France I am going for.

Thanks to everyone for their comments.

I thought Gebirgsjaeger reversible smocks were mushroom grey, not mouse grey… the two shades are distinctly different.

What colour would you use to paint mouse grey ? From my interpretation of the colours, would I be wrong to think it had a green hue to it ?

The plain grey was an alternative to the camp pattern.

I'm more interested in what the camp pattern was like. A mixture of pink and cerise perhaps? :-)