"Syrian Civil War = Spanish Civil War?" Topic

Just curious.

Do you see any similarities between the current conflict in Syria and the one back in '30s in Spain? Well, beyond the fact that both countries have a "S" name with five letter and there's a civil war afoot? Check out this article:

link

In the Spanish Civil War the world was split into two basic blocks: Fascist vs. Anti-Fascist. Could the same be said now? The Fascist nations supported the rebel faction while the Anti-Fascist faction supported the Spanish Republic. Do you see a similar dynamic here?

Finally the Spanish Civil War was a precursor to WWII. Does the war in Syria have a similar potential? Or if it's a precursor is it more like a regional conflict?

Yeah I know… there is Blue Fez potential here but I'm sure personal politics can be left out and there is room for a logical discussion that looks at how current events can be parallel with those in the past. And to toss in a wargame fig leaf to hide behind:

Is there a miniature gaming potential here? Or is this conflict more of a political style wargame like TSR's Desert Storm game?

I read an article on the BBC website that said that exact thing.

link

Any other comment is sure to be Blue Fez stuff.

Cheers,
JohnG

I think it more that civil wars tend to all follow similar patterns. It would be like comparing oranges grown in Australia with Oranges grown in the US, or Mexico (or anywhere). Some local differences, but generally the same.

In regards to the SCW being a pre-cursor to WW2, that might be a bit more of a stretch. There are definitely connectors between the two, but the genesis of WW2 doesn't lie in Spain.

TGunner, my impression is that opposing the government are a number (three or more) main factions. Some of which are opposed in view point or at least religious background from the other.

platypus: Thanks for the link. I wish the writer spent a bit more time talking about the parallels between the wars.

Tim: The same was true in Spain too. There were several different factions on both sides that sort of coalesced into the two main factions. The Nationalists had like three main groups: Conservative, Fascist, and the Carlists. While on the Republican side you had the Communists (which was the smallest faction at the start of the war), the Liberal Republicans, and the Anarchists. One could argue that there were two "religious" factions in this war too: the Carlists and the Communists/Anarchists (although the two socialist factions were bitterly opposed to each other like the Catholics and Protestants were and maybe like the Sunni and the Shia are now).

Anyway, you might be right about the main faction part. I don't get the impression that the Syrian factions are as united as the Libyans were. I think that is where the Syrians are struggling- they don't have a united front that coordinates things and presents anything like a legitimate government. That was the case in the Spanish Civil War, the American Revolution, and even the Texas Revolution: the rebel factions in those conflicts had a government that united the various rebel factions together and coordinated their efforts.

Hey, I'm not a scholar on the subject either

But the Interwar stuff going got my attention so I've read up a little on it. If it wasn't for that I wouldn't be thinking about the parallels between these conflicts.

So what would a modern 'Legion Condor' look like?

I don't know what sort of news that gets through the filters in the USA but the darling 'rebel fighters' of the FSA (Fundamentalist Salafist Army) in Syria are the same ones, fighting for the same cause (the Caliphate), that are killing western troops in Afghanistan.

So yes, the rebels in Syria do have similarities to the fascist rebels in Spain – rich backers (Saudi, Turkey, Qatar, Israel) and the secular government has weak support from Russia.

There will be a bloodbath of Christians when the Syrian 'rebels' take power.

Re the Christians, don't disagree that the knives will be out for them, but it may go the way of Egypt where the suppression is a slow grow that builds over time.

Syria falling to pieces is going to a complete mess, and I shudder at what is going to happen there post Assad.

"In the Spanish Civil War the world was split into two basic blocks: Fascist vs. Anti-Fascist. Could the same be said now? The Fascist nations supported the rebel faction while the Anti-Fascist faction supported the Spanish Republic."

The SCW was a bit more complicated than that, a multi-dimensional conflict involving not just left & right but centralism vs regionalism, conservatism and radicalism, authoritariansim and liberty as well as the distribution of wealth and power and Spains 'place in the world'.

Interesting comparison. I dont think you have outside countries dumping heavy weapons (aircraft & tanks) into the country (yet!) as you did in Spain by Germany and the USSR.

Given that the Spanish Civil War is thought of as dress rehearsal for WW2, I hope not

Note As far as I am aware the FSA is the Free Syrian Army which is an attempt to integrate all the opposition forces together.

Some of which are more "radical Islam" than others

The Kurds are really the interesting wild card in this scenario. If the band with the main Op. forces then you will really have a potent enemy for Assad.

I don't think there's the ideological underpinning in Syria (or Libya).

A lot of the fighters in both of these uprisings seem to be opportunistic thugs.

For example, I've read in both instance with groups of fighters refusing to fight or in some instances demanding payment for launching assaults.

In Libya the fighters have just established their own little fiefdoms Mogadishu style.

The only ideology that seems to hold some sway is radical Islamism that makes Fascism, Nationalism, Communim or Socialism look pale in comparison.

Basically I think Libya and Syria are more comparable to what happened in Somalia and Afghanistan in the 1990s – i.e. failed states.

Link to Wiki article on current factional fighhting in Libya:

link

"I don't get the impression that the Syrian factions are as united as the Libyans were."

Tgunner – there was no unity at all in Libya. The Misratans did (and still do) as they please. They committed one of the biggest atrocities of the war – Tawergha a city of 23,000 mainly black Libyans who weere ethnically cleansed.

The warlords in the West from Zintan and Tripoli did not listen to NTC who they viewed as Benghazi orientated.

Similarly the Islamists pursued their own agendas.

This is why Libya is such a disaster now.

The problem with Arabs is that as soon as tight government controls are relinquished, tribal and Islamist affiliations come to the fore.

The rebels in Syria don't seem to be ideologically motivated so much as they enjoy killing just about everyone that moves. Sure, there's a moderate faction or two in there, but an alarming number of atrocities have been committed by the side that many claim to be 'fighting for freedom'.

Some of the sectarian violence – things that went down outside of Lattakia come to mind- is truly mind-bogglingly awful.

I could see parallels to the Spanish civil war, namely in the number of foreign fighters aiding both sides. Overt aid to the SAA has been rather limited, but the various Europeans (buffoons) have been alarmingly quick to assist the rebels.

Interesting; if you draw parallels to the Spanish Civil War, then the Kurds are like the Basque or Catalan; their interests are not ideological but ethnic.