"Marshal Suchet unmasked..." Topic

Who really was this Marshal of France? An unrivaled reputation in Spain, yet seemingly underemployed in the 1815 campaign. He fought at most of the great battles, so what happened that he was not better utilized? Or did History simply forget him? I never quite know how to view this Marshal that won the hearts and minds in Catalonia…

He isn't forgotten, my Black Lab Dog is named Suchet! What higher honor could someone ask for!<G>

During the Hundred Days, he commanded the Armee des Alpes and protected the large city of Lyons (the marshal, not the dog).

One of the best, and one of the few who could be trusted with an independent command.

An unexpectedly good read is Rod of Iron: Counterinsurgency in Catalonia (I think). Shows what good be done with a little sense and a lot less greed.

Second that last comment. A fabulous book. Good memoirs too.

I have read that book, and you both are correct; a very good read. Apparently he was not in the inner circle of Napoleon, yet it's hard to find such a diligent, hard working commander. His expertise in both Italy and Spain were invaluable. I guess not participating in the central European campaigns (1807, 1809, 1812) but instead being confined to Spain kept him more distant from the intrigues of Paris. Apparently not flamboyant like others, and dedicated more to the needs of others than himself. Just wondered how others felt about him, as he often is not mentioned on this site.

Greetings

A good commander although he does not seem to have been immune to disputes between the French commanders in Spain. In my view he somewhat mishandled the action of Castalla in 1813.

Regards

Edward

It's a shame Suchet wasn't better used. Napoleon's response when asked on St Helena who was his best General, "It seems to me it may have been Suchet".
High praise indeed. Although I have a suspicion he didn't want to say his best General was Davout for personal reasons (Napoleon wanted to protect his reputation and not allow any of his glorious acchievements to be eclipsed by Davout).

Another Marshal who was not part of the inner circle and woefully under-used was St Cyr. Both St Cyr and Suchet were to my mind very talented commanders, much greater in ability than other more well known figures such as Ney, Oudinot and Macdonald.

Suchet and St. Cyr, the two most under-rated and underused of Napoleon's Marshals.

(Though, in St Cyr's case, having Desaix around would have helped him get a baton earlier, while also allowing Desaix the chance to deliver the occasional good natured smack on the back of the head to lighten up once in awhile).

I have wargamed Castalla a couple of times. Pretty fun, especially the reverse slope position for the British. As far as this Marshal goes, a thought occurred. The Army already had to eat the fact that 2 of their best Marshals had been in the employ of the former government, a few short months before. Lot's of distrust already. Since Suchet was also guilty of the same, would it have made it harder still? Would save alot of heartache if he wasn't part of the Armee Du Nord. After all, he spent the better part of his career away from any army Napoleon commanded.

Besides possible "what ifs" like Desaix, I would like to add a couple of other names whose career ended all too soon. LaSalle, D'Hauptpol.

Both Suchet and Saint Cyr were able and good Marshals, but the troops nikname Saint Cyr as "The owl" because he always shows so serious, aloof and rather pedantic.
In the case of Suchet his troops respected him unconditionally.

Amicalement
Armand

The suspicion due to employ of the king makes no sense in broader context, for broader context see: Ney.

Cheers,

The Bandit

I recently read an essay on Marshal St Cyr, I think he was an interesting & noble (in the true personality sense of the word) character, very different from the mostly greedy, bombastic, morally corrupt and fame-seeking Marshalate in general. "A stoic an age of Pragmatism" the essay says. I quite like him.
Armand I agree that he could be distant and aloof but he actually took very good care of his soldiers, especially in Spain and Russia where things were most difficult. Also, the often quoted 'fact' that he didn't support his fellow generals is a bit of a myth. It's true that Massena and Moreau disliked him (because he exposed their pillaging & corruption) but Desaix, Ney and D'Hautpol actually praised him highly for the help he gave them.
I think he was one of the very best Marshals in terms of his natural ability.
Napoleon said of him "He is the best man amongst us in the line of defense, though I am superior to him in attack".
The usually critical Marbot said of him "St Cyr was one of the most able soldiers in Europe…I never knew anyone handle troops in battle better than St Cyr".
It is true that he never lost a battle. The fact that he isn't better known and regarded comes down to political rather than Military reasons. Napoleon disliked St Cyr because he didn't get involved in politics or support his Coronation. That's why he didn't get the Baton earlier

Also, I'm not sure I would describe him as pedantic. It is said he had a real flair for dramatic psychological warfare. In the revolution he would time cavalry and infantry charges to come immediately after an explosion of shell from a massed battery. A pre-curser of the later Napoleonic style of warfare?

Odd isn't it, that the marshals who operated best independantly were given commands away from Napoleon? Maybe he kept Ney, Oudinot and Murat close by his side for a reason? BTW, Eugene did OK without Napoleon too.

I recently read an essay on Marshal St Cyr…

Telestic…name of said essay and its' availability please would be most welcome.

…he actually took very good care of his soldiers, especially in Spain and Russia where things were most difficult.

Another truism, though, even I will admit, he should have been slammed "downstairs" to regimental command for a year or so, just to get his boots muddy and work with the troops; as he did rather tend to treat them like chess pieces/tools as opposed to human beings being sent into harms way.

Oh, come on! Surely Grouchy was THE BEST marshal!

My dear friend TelesticWarrior I generally agree with your comments here, only want to point that Saint Cyr did lost Dresden when he failed to broke the siege of that city and then when he was deceived by the Allied and surrender with his whole Corp.
Of course, the surrender was not his fault. The Allied didn't keep their word.
If I had to critic St Cyr it's only that when France was at his most dangerous moment invaded by the Allied, he refuse to fight.

Amicalement
Armand

Hi Andrew,

the essay (I'm not sure its really an essay but I didn't know what else to call it) is from Napoleons Marshals, a huge book edited by David Chandler. Each chapter is written by a different Author and focuses on a different Marshal, so Suchet and all the other Big hats are also included.

St. Cyr was St. Cyr – who would make his opinion and not follow uncritically – so incase he did not fight against the Allies, he must have had some good reason, as did many other generals as well.

I have to admit – my most favourite French Army is that of du Rhin in 1796 with all their exellent commanders.

The term Owl – not necessecarily negative, the bird of knowledge – see also Palas Athene.

I agree, the nick-name of Owl is a good one, and suits this thoughtful, intelligent and independent-thinking Officer very well.

I have to admit – my most favourite French Army is that of du Rhin in 1796 with all their exellent commanders.

I'll expand that, somewhat. I'm a big fan of both the R&M and Sambre et Meuse and I "still" think that the 1796 German Campaign one of the most interesting during the entire Napoleonic period (1789-1826), because both armies had several generals with great credentials and they came very close to defeating the much larger array of forces that were fielded against them under Archduke Charles.

Hell, I'm still P.O.'d at Nappy for his treatment of Richepanse and Decaen (among others) by shuffling them off to Guadaloupe and Mauritius before the Imperial wars began.

Yes Richepanse – a pity – not to forget how the Armée d'Orient was dumped on Kleber and how well he then organised it and won the unbelievalbe battle at Heliopolis.

And Lecourbe? Re – activated much too late.

Yeah, Nappy was prejudiced against the "Germanic" armies, which was very unfortunate for all parties concerned.

Richepanse, Lecourbe and Decaen (among others, like Grenier) were young enough and senior enough to prove whether they were worth a baton by 1809 or so(ala St. Hilaire).

Kleber, another example, had Desaix lived, where Napoleon would have realized he had three major German army "Wing" commanders (two or more corps, let's say) ready made for any task had they just been available in 1805.