"Dutch Sink Pirate Mothership" Topic

It appears that the current anti-piracy tactics are working off Somalia, with attacks down 80% compared with 2010, and actual pirate seizures of vessels down 90%. So, NATO and other naval forces patrols in the area, and permitting armed personnel on ships transitting the area are succeeding.

The latest good news from the region is the Dutch have sunk a pirate mothership, putting more pressure on the bad guys in the region.

Before some bleeding heart chimes in on how we know it was a pirate vessel, or pirates on the ship, apparently they chose to engage the Dutch warship, and its boarding crew in a smaller vessel heading towards it, with AK-47s, both from the vessel, and from the shore.

Needless to say, that brought about the anticipated response.

More info here:

link

So, three cheers for the Dutch. Someone please buy them a round, if you happen to run across any in your local tavern, or pub for me, since I'm a bit too far away to be able to do that personally.

Where the Somalian Blackbeard ? The one who boards a warship, commandeers it to plunder his way to wealth and glory and eventually goes down in a blaze of glory and well-aimed ship to ship missiles …

Alas, I suspect real men like that are few and far between, especially amongst the modern day pirates.

Another reason I prefer the pirates of olde, and fantasy to the current day ones, which I despise.

Ah sorry mates (and since this is not a wargaming post), but the pirates of old were just as bastards as the pirates of today. Rapists, killers, looters the whole lot. Thriving on anarchy or war just like the Somali ones. Desperate men then desperate men now. To see any difference is really a bit fallacious. Now fantasy pirates do not exist, so you can make them whatever you want.

That'll learn 'em

If it had been a Chinese warship there would not have been any of this fishing survivors out of the water

Well played the Dutch.

apparently they chose to engage the Dutch warship, and its boarding crew in a smaller vessel heading towards it, with AK-47s, both from the vessel, and from the shore

I have to think that the pirates of old were, if not any NICER than the pirates of today, perhaps at least a bit SMARTER. Good job, Nederlanders!

If it had been a Chinese warship there would not have been any of this fishing survivors out of the water

Nope. Might have been some fishing in the water using them as bait, but fishing them out of the water is doubtful.

Doug

Good job well done.

Too bad they only killed one pirate, otherwise thumbs up.
-Kle.

Glad to see that sustained efforts are working and I was especially glad that private security has played a hand

Definately a case of mistaken identity on the part of the pirates. They thought the ship was a tanker backing up.

HNMLS Rotterdam
link

I will raise a glass tonight.
Cheers,

Calling your mothership "Queen Anne's Revenge" is a dead giceaway.

Go Dutch !!

Good job well done.

I think there are several scenarios that can be wargamed from this. Ship take downs are not easy in broad day light. A shot across the bow is one thing, firing into the ship another, boarding actions are the highest risk but the prefered tactic of most of the UN forces operating in the region. A mother ship that fires first is just plan asking for it.

VR
James Mattes

Hup Holland!! Prachtig!

The boarding party craft is an assault boat so it likely had a heavy automatic weapon, think .50 cal, or maybe a grenade launcher.

I hope they will post photos of the ones they fished out hanging (by the neck)over the side as they come back into port. That is what they do with pirates don't they? If not they should.

HNMLS Rotterdam, I could see mistaking this ship as a ferry, but not a tanker

Bravo!

Well done RNN!

Our pleasure, Mako11.

And you do owe me that drink.

Ottenfeld, if you ever make it to port in Seattle let me know and it will be done.

owen

Happy to oblige if you make it to Central California.

We have several good pubs/taverns in the area, and at least one makes a variety of their own brews.

Does anyone know what kind of armament, if any beside personal weapons, the boarding boat might have carried?

The following list is taken from a well known online encylopedia. As there are AT weapons in here I assume it includes the RN Marine Corps:

Personal weapons
Diemaco C7A1 5.56mm assault rifle
Diemaco C8A1 5.56 mm carbine
Diemaco C7 LSW light machinegun
Glock 17 pistol
FN MAG general purpose machinegun
M2HB 12.7mm (.50cal) heavy machinegun
SSG sniper rifle
Accuracy International AWM sniper rifle in .338 Lapua Magnum
M107 12.7mm sniper rifle
MP5 submachine gun
P90 submachine gun
M590A1 shotgun
AT4 anti-tank rocket
Panzerfaust 3 anti-tank weapon
Gill anti-tank missile
FIM-92C Stinger man-portable surface-to-air missile

Nice selection of firepower …

Is that each?

I suspect the A/T weapons and Stingers are left back at base, unless doing a little hunting on land.

I dont know Mako. I bet a panzerfaust will stop most boaTS. Or the AT-4. Unless doing boarding actions I suspect the shotguns and submachineguns are of little use consodering the ranges shios shoot at each other. And why bother to board when a couple of good AT hits solves the rpoblem once and for all.

Owen

Very true, but no one on the inflatable will be very happy about the backblast from one of these, while bouncing on the seas.

How about a contrary view? For the "Yay, kill them!" crowd, let's look at some Somali background to see how these pirates are simply standing up for themselves and have bigger balls than most.

Western meddling destabilized the legitimate Somali government (look it up) and, among other things, eliminated their ability to protect sovereign fishing zones. Asian fishing fleets took advantage of this and fished the area nearly to extinction. The local Somali fishermen watched all this happen as both their means of income and way of life were systematically destroyed.

With no help coming some took matters into their own hands and seized an intruding fishing vessel. The operation went well and a ransom was eventually paid for the return of vessel and crew. A new industry was born to replace the one stolen from hard working Somalis wanting nothing more than to feed their families and have a trade. Personally, I admire their willingness to grab an inferior weapon, get in a piece of junk boat, and go to sea against very bad odds instead of sitting around feeling sorry for themselves.

Bravo, I say…

It's one thing to grab a fishing boat that's intruding in your 12nm territorial waters, or even in your 200nm Economic Exclusion Zone. While that is ordinarily the Coast Guard's job, when there's not a Coast Guard or Navy to do it someone needs to.

It's a whole nother kettle of fish to grab cargo ships passing through. All nations have the right to TRAVEL without interference on the waves. And that's what is currently happening.

Since international maritime law didn't protect them in their time of need I can understand why they ignore it now.

Just as others ignore it right back. Solving your problems with guns only works if the other guys cooperate. If they dont you wind up with more and bigger problems than you started with. Particularly when you pick on peole with little sense of humor for your activities.

Grabbing the fishing boats probably was a reasonable respone to a specific problem. And it worked. But instead of sticking to that, they saw easy money and bailed into it. And when they got that money did they do something with it that would lead to long term economic relief? No they partied like crazy and bought tones of expensive and not that usefull junk and thought it would last forever.

Now it has gone bust and they are destitute again. Good reason to do a bit of historical reasearch before embarking on a career of piracy. historicaly it has ended badly for the vast majority of pirates.

Owen

Mako true about the backblast. But nobody is going to be happy if you light up a maduece in the back of your rubber raft either. Or even that MAG on the list. Recoil on those is not insubstantial.

Of course they may havev some sort of mounting system for the MAG at least that spreads it around enough to be OK. Not at all sure you can do that with the >50. Still this is TMP and if you can do that, somebody will be along shortly to prove me wrong.

owen

Agreed Owen. The bad end was assured from the start and Somalia was never a pinnacle of civilization, but I was always impressed at their standing up to adversity and trying *something*…

I love piracy in fiction, or reading about the history of pirates from the days of olde.

However, I have no use for modern day pirates, who are cutthroats, thieves, and murderers.

Clearly, if fishing vessels have violated their waters, and wiped out their fish that is wrong, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Taking to the seas to steal, kidnap, or ransom others and their property is not the way to go about things.

Nor is firing AK-47's at a warship, or its small craft, crewed by vulnerable personnel.

They're lucky they weren't all shot, hung, or dangled over the side as shark bait, on the spot, as far as I'm concerned. If they were, as a message to others, I imagine that piracy on the high seas would be a lot less popular around the globe.

Piracy is very popular around the globe. Somalia gets a lot of attention because they are grabing some big ships from major players. they are now learnig why that is a bad idea.

There is an agency that tracks pirate attacks world wide. I dont have the link anymore, but it is out there. When i was checking it out for something, there was an avereage of more than one incident a day all year long.Most of it involves grabbing smaller vessels like fishing craft, or somewhat larger ships from nations that dont have the fleet to go hunt down the pirates.

But, many times these small pirates are much worse on the crews than the Somalia pirates. nobody has anything to ransom a poor fishing crew, so they just kill them. Or eventualy kill them. In all a very bad place to be in.

what they did not track on the site where small speed craft that are grabbed to smuggle drugs with. Most of those are hard on the crew as well. but, due to where it happens, it is not really piracy as such, but grand theft boat. I be the distinction does not matter to those who are on the boats when they are seized.

Of course much of what happened in the grand age of piracy was not much different. I was shocked the first time I read about Jack rackham. his first three or four seizures where fishing boats from which he only got food and some ships stores. Make sense I guess as there where a lot more of them around than treasure ships. And the crews did not fight, they knew thier ships where not worth taking, and with no cameras nobody worried about witnesses.

Probably the biggest difference between then and now is 300-400 years.

owen

Witnesses that don't need to be alive to tell the tale and much, much faster communications.

Oh, and let me be perfectly clear: IF the Somalis had strictly gone after fishing boats in their territorial waters or their EEZ, I would be cheering them on. But even the United States has trouble keeping the [expletives deleted] various Asian fishing fleets out of *our* EEZ, and we have armed warships patrolling!

Go Dutch!

Does anyone know what kind of armament, if any beside personal weapons, the boarding boat might have carried?

I'd expect some approximation of the following (based on USN use):

Diemaco C7A1 5.56mm assault rifle or Diemaco C8A1 5.56 mm carbine AND Glock 17 pistol
Diemaco C7 LSW light machinegun or FN MAG general purpose machinegun
M2HB 12.7mm (.50cal) heavy machinegun on fixed mounts (like the RHIBs or on the railings of their ships)
SSG sniper rifle OR Accuracy International AWM .338 OR M107 12.7mm sniper rifle

The MP5, P90, and M590A1 shotgun are more likely for boarding teams as opposed to security patrols. P90s also struggle at 150m, which is danger-close range at sea before you board a ship.

'Just as others ignore it right back. Solving your problems with guns only works if the other guys cooperate. If they dont you wind up with more and bigger problems than you started with. Particularly when you pick on peole with little sense of humor for your activities'

Sounds like US foreign policy right there, spooky!

John