"British covert operations in Scotland" Topic

With support for the "Yes" vote for the independence referendum supposedly sitting as low as 30%, the English dominated central government is looking at ways to influence Scottish voters to vote Yes. What can the SAS operatives do? Burn the Scottish flag? Blow up Edinburgh castle? Arrange for more frequent Royal visits to Balmoral?

Let It Be.

They are all adults.

Ban the possession, and drinking of scotch!!!???

Of course, being on the other side of the pond, I have no idea what a "yes" vote is for, or would entail, but am merely following the logical conclusion, given some of the other examples provided above.

Yes for independence from the EU?

Yes for independence from the UK?

Yes for independence from <insert your choices here> ?

"the English dominated central government is looking at ways to influence Scottish voters to vote Yes."

Why on earth would the government wish to preside over the breakup of the United Kingdom?

Why did the government preside over the breakup of the empire?

English dominated central government – there's a hoot.

Anecdotally, most of my Scottish friends are against the dissolution of the Union. Englisg friends and acquaintances are more positive about a break-up but this is usually in jest.

From a wargaming perspective it's a damp squib: one could imagine some headcases carrying out direct action for one side or the other but these would likely be symbolic and unopposed. Perhaps ripping down or hoisting flags or the like: not much of game there!

I think we colonials would be wise to avoid other folks internal politics as we have been known to get a bit touchy when outsiders mention ours.

From a wargaming perspective it's a damp squib:

Yeah you're probably right. I vaguely remember reading that there was more support for Scottish independence in England than Scotland, so I thought, what if Downing St really wanted it to happen and then got worried when it looked like the vote was going to be No

Far more worrying would be Scottish Independance and they then grab all the North Sea oil (depends if you draw the new sea border horizontally or at an angle).

There is some scope for a spot of action on oil rigs in that scenario I suppose, but really it is unthinkable. You would be talking about a British Civil War. Acceptable for a what-if I guess, but very unlikely.

There is plenty of comment about this on e.g. the BBC, particularly the machinations the previous and current government have gone through precisely to avoid either independance or extending devolution as well as the (lack of) appetite for independance on either side of the border, but this is far too much like politics for TMP.

So the price of oil and haggis would go way up?..:)

And Scotch, not to mention Scottish energy and water. But don't let that bother you.

By the way Martin Rapier, International law is pretty clear about how borders are drawn on the seabed, and if anyone is telling you it can be drawn diagonally by the westminster government, then they are having you on!

Is there any similar notion of Welsh seperation ?

I've already told my wife: If the numpties up here vote for independance we are heading south ASAP. Independence – no thanks!

"if anyone is telling you it can be drawn diagonally by the westminster government, then they are having you on!"

Its drawn perpendicular to the coastline, so from a "north = up" perspective a maritime border would appear to be diagonal. It certainly won't run parallel to a line or latitude since the coast line at Berwick upon Tweed runs SE – NW.

Sean Connery found dead on the border , the SNP funds dry up .. They resurrect the England Vs Scotland game – the EDL riot and sit on the goalposts at Hampden Park .

Support for Welsh independence is about 8%, so it's unlikely.

As for Scottish water – they've no means of transporting it south, except in tiny bottles. The two systems are separate.

Energy? Not so much. It's a long way from SE England that needs it. The Government is looking at importing energy from Ireland which makes more sense.

But covert ops? Nah.

"…machinations the previous and current government have gone through precisely to avoid ..independance"

Why in the world would they do that? It's a chance in a lifetime to once and for all stop the whinging! ;-)

" this is far too much like politics for TMP"

It was meant to be whimsical, not political. Hope no one was offended

I read recently that only 12% of Scottish households make a net financial contribution to the state. It is only possible for so many to be net beneficiaries if English taxpayers continue to stump up for them, so there is no way the Scots will vote to give that up.

Might make a good very british civil war scenario if you wanted to transplant the concept of scottish unionists and liberators back to 1938?

Battles at Berwick and over the border – and further into Scotland might make a great series of linked campaigns.

But too much like politics in the here and now.

I agree Maddaz. Ive thought about this scenario for years.

It's all very 'politics in the here and now'…hence the claim that only 12% of Scotish households make a net contribution to the UK…it's hogwash, but so what? That's politics.
A more interesting 'what if' could be built around failure to achieve the Treaty of Union in 1707 and a resulting war with the Scots getting support form France and Spain. That would be a lot different to the '15 and the '45 since support for the Jacobites was very limited in Scotland.

MI5 and the SAS break in to the Scottish Parliament to steal the the negative legal advice that the SNP got about accession to the EU…

Shoot Mel Gibson.

Actually that would be my choice in most circumstances.

I was under the impression that a lot of the Royal Navy operates out of Scotland. Lots of hardware, communication networks, vast amounts of land off limits to civilians and plenty of interesting hush hush stuff up there that belongs to the Crown. Plus of course, the SAS and SBS train and play up there. There's no way England would give all that up voluntarily. There'd have to be a bloody revolution up there for Scotland to have any chance of its unwanted independence.

Ironpony,

Yes, that certainly is a lot of 'pony' of a certain type…

Anyway, in the spirit of previous Falklands threads, I propose Suicide Haggis.

So, to the previous posters…

Your miniatures wargaming suggestions are?

Civil war; separate armies; the same army with different foreign policies?

As the facts are: illegal under EU law regardless of what any of the UK central or regional governments claim: EU citizenship cannot be removed. The UK cannot become separate nations for the same reason: citizenship may not be removed. You may add a citizenship, but not remove it from someone who has it.

The EU can say what it likes – but the UN Law which states everyone has the right to self-determination trumps it.

Still, the SNP aren't going to win the referendum so it's all a bit hypothetical.

SNP won't win the referendum, but with Cameron, Miliband, Clegg, Osborne and Darling running the show, the Unionist parties may contrive to lose it.
RMD…would that be an anti-tank or anti-personnel haggis? Could there be a dual-role variant?