"Is scratch-building a dying art form for gamers?" Topic

I can understand someone asking if a figure is being manufactured, with terrain and scenics it's a different matter. I've noted a string of tread asking does someone manufacture a particular item, be it a Napoleonic redoubt or a ACW blockhouse.

Maybe I'm too old school, but what happened to the idea researching what something looked like then going out and making it yourself?

A little time and partience is normally all that is required, so why the reluctance to try?

Does this show evolution in the hobby in that we don't have to spend our family walks gathering stones, twigs and other found items to turn into wargaming goodies?

Thoughts gentlemen?

For me no – it is still probably my favourite activity. The problem is that I usually end up making stuff I don't use, just because I fancy doing it.

You will always get users and makers in any hobby. My brother-in-law is into model trains but hasn't built a single loco/carriage/wagon kit, trackside building or even done a custom paint-job. He isn't interested in modelling so he buys stuff ready made and is perfectly happy doing it.

Perhaps some dont have the time… Rather than any reluctance.

I have a young family, a job and several other things that require attention.

Thus I need to maximise my time and if this means I can buy something pre-built then thats a whole load of time I can spend on something else for the hobby – Painting, converting, sculpting etc.

Its less of a 'cant be bothered' attitude, to more of a 'not enough time' attitude.

Now if was retired and had endless days to twiddle my thumbs then I would… But as my kids are under five, I need to compact everything into as speedy a means as possible!

That said, last month I scratchbuilt a hill with defences for our WW2 games…

I love making my own terrain.
Not because I can't buy suitable stuff, but rather because I like the satisfaction of using things I have made and to be honest I like the admiration.

For me, no – I am a little further in my life cycle than Piers, so I do have a little more time and I find that I am scratch-building a lot more now than I used to – in fact, over the last year I scratch-built a 10-man infantry squad, a 36-man infantry platoon, an artillery crew and piece and a command vehicle for them

No, it is not a dying art. There are whole Yahoo forums oriented towards DIY gaming.

As others indicate, it is more time than reluctance that I hear as excuses as to "why not". That and lots of disposable income. :^)

I scratch build where I can. It is cheaper and more satisfying than buying ready made stuff.

At one time I scratch built everything because I had no money. Now I have a few bucks and often buy stuff that is much better looking than what I made. Alas a lot of the really nice terrain is still out of my price range.

I have always scratch built my terrain, houses, hills defenses etc. The only things I have ever purchased are stone walls and bridges. Part of the fun, especially for the modern era, is scrounging things that can be turned into terrain.

I prefer making terrain and scenics to painting figures. Give me some cardboard, wall filler, polystyrene and gravel and I'm happy for hours.

It may simply boil down to time/skill vs. money.

If you were gaming Victorian Science Fiction back at the turn of the millennium, there was no other choice but scratch-building and kit-bashing. Now there are plenty of items available off the shelf, though many gamers (myself included) still enjoy putting glue to odd, plastic and metal bits. To be honest, I appreciate having the options.

Al | ravenfeastsmeadhall.blogspot.com

No way scratchbuilding is still the best part of our hobby! Even if I don't feel like painting mini's there is nearly always something on the go on the work bench that I can spend some time on, take a look at my Photobucket link I've even done a couple of step-by-step guides! I think sometimes people just need a little help to get started, once you've built your own I don't think there really is any going back! Ok some people just don't have the time and would rather game and who can blame them! But hey once youve built your first piece of terrain and you sit back and someone says I like that where did you get it from? And you answer I made it! There is no feeling like it, or better still someone likes it so much they offer to buy it from you, then you know it don't get any better than that!

I scratch-build terrain, buildings, some spaceships, certainly bridges, and even some field-guns. It's fun, and it saves money better spent on figures and rules.

I'm puzzled about all the terrain that's bought and sold. Some of it is amazing, and certainly worth the price. But for ordinary buildings, bridges, wells, outhouses, statues, fields, walls, can you really afford to buy everything?

Part of the fun of miniatures is making the game "yours". Manufactured terrain is really nice, but it's from someone else's imagination.

What I like most about scratch-built terrain, though, is something a little hard to explain, the "found-object" aspect of it. It's a neat little building, but it started out as a piece of wood, some glue, part of a Cheeze-It box, some paint. A chunk of styrofoam from some packaging, some sawdust, some of those little wooden coffee stirrers, some thread, some wire, and all kinds of things are possible. It's not just that it costs next to nothing, it's that something so banal became something that inspires the imagination and fills out your little world. Terrain from a package that only requires paint is "better", but I still like making things from "nothing".

Its about how people want to spend their hobby time. I know people who love to paint and will buy everything else.

Hell No!

Scratch building continues, Long live the scratch builder.

Seriously on any modelling or wargaming forum, there are always loads of hand made terrain and scenic items.

Tony

I don't buy into the "no time to do it" line.
If its really your hobby, there's always time. If you can't spare any time to do your hobby, its not really your hobby then is it?

I suspect its more a product of the type of gamer who just wants to play a game rather than actually indulge in the modelling, painting, research, etc. aspects of wargaming. Their loss. I'm probably too old school to really relate to those types of wargamers.

No – but on this forum there seem to be a lot of pundits who prefer shopping to making …

For myself, Scratch-building is not remotely dead. I'm still on the constant lookout for bits and supplies for construction.

However, I think on the sci-fi and Fantasy end scratch-building has suffered a from the proliferation of GW building kits in the last 8 years or so.

GW used to promote lots of scratch-building of terrain on their website and in WD. I have some excellent articles, including one on how to make an entire jungle table with craft and aquarium plants. However, now that is mostly gone and in it's place are articles on assembly and modification of GW's plastic kits buildings, trees, hills, etc. They don't even publish their book "How to Make Wargames Terrain" anymore. Both editions of which were quite useful and have a permanent place in my gaming library.

Don't get me wrong, the kits are really nice looking, and offer lots of options for custmization and many folks are still making their own stuff. Still, with GW being the dominant player in Sci-Fi and Fantsy, I do feel that their production and promotion of scenery kits has impacted the number of players producing their own scenery.

Dear 138 Squadron

Naah, Not at all! It just seems that way because people who scratchbuild aren't going to come onto TMP and ask "Hey where am I going to scratchbuild A SMK tank or a ACW blockhouse. They're off and doing it.

I still scratchbuild most of my terrain, my table tops, my models, and I make my own rules. It's the best part of the hobby. I'm working on right now my own forest terrain (with internal boxes to hide figures in) and I'm also making scratch built 18th century sailing ships (12" long) for a game I'm making. I convert my own figures and even sculpted a few one-up's I wanted. Recently took some Turkish figures and converted them into a band, regularly make special figures for my Imagi-Nations Regiments (like officers, NCO's and Court figures) and have little scenes and dioramas on the stands.

I don't subscribe to Wargame Magazines either. I subscribe to Model Railroader Magazines. They have far better articles and tips on scratchbuilding and model making.

Scratch building. It's loads of fun. Then there's the gaming with the thing you just built. That's loads of fun. Then there's storing the thing you just built and played a wonderful game with.
That's where the fun stops and the rearrange rumba begins. I really need another house for my family. They're just so in the way.;)

I find scratch building tedious and dull, so I (almost) always buy my terrain. I don't even like painting the stuff so wherever possible I buy stuff ready right out of the box.

NEVAAAAAAAAARRRRRR!!!!!

but then again….I helped sculpt a line of miniatures that I sold (and there were always 'first drafts') and have been collecting 'bits' for so long….I have more 'bits' than figures…and kitbash boxes too!!

Sgt DWW-btod

If you paint your armies with attention to details, such as correct piping, buttons and the like, why would you not want your terrain to reflect the same degree of detail?

There are a lot of beautifully made terrain items, but do not quite fit the scale of the rule systems I use, this necessitates construction.

I believe researching the appropriate geography and architectual style and their construction can be equally satisfying as painting.

dbagora.blogspot.nl

Cheers,

Otto said it for me.

Thank you.It's good to know I'm not alone.

Point taken over limited time though.

The part that really fascinates me, is the stuff that people will pay money for. I can make movement trays for pennies out of card, left over window shade slats and some strip balsa. The "books" sold for Coin Collectors make great skirmish movement stands and can be cut up as needed.

Hope not. I've grown used to my name.

I build mainly landscape features. My attention to detail is such that I can buy a better ready made building than I can make.

I'm a serial converter. Could be an age thing, of course – you know 'When I was a lad all we had were Airfix and Bob O'Brien's article on Roman Friends and Foes'.

Not so good with terrain though.

I don't like to scratch build. I would rather buy if possible. I really like pre-painted terrain. I figure the amount of money that I pay to buy terrain is far and away overshadowed by what I pay to buy figures. I am a gamer first, modeler second.

Most of my terrain is scratch built. I have nothing against others buying it, but for me its a big part of my hobby interests.

link

I like premade if I find just the right thing. Usually I buy kit type things and I build them and paint them. Commercial already assembled and painted rarely looks good enough so I end up repainting and flocking most of the time.

Scratch building is fine, and I'd never in a brazillion years say anything bad about terrain that was made with an honest effort.

But some of us just aren't skilled enough to build things acceptable to ourselves. At the end of the work, it just doesn't look right (even if it does) and getting a commercially done building/hill/etc is just what's going to happen.

My hat is off to you folks that do it and make it stick, it's just not everybody's forte.

I like scratch building, and in fact nowadays I prefer to work on terrain more than miniatures. But if I can buy a piece ready-made and painted, I'll often opt for it and spend my scratch building time on something else.

However I find it a rare piece indeed that is completely ready to play with. Hills and some trees are the exception, but everything else needs to be painted and based, or at least based.

nnascati: The "books" sold for Coin Collectors make great skirmish movement stands and can be cut up as needed.

Oh great idea. Consider that stolen.

Lack of time and skill reduces my scratchbuilding. that said, nearly all my Mordheim terrain was scratchbuilt as I was skint at the time and no one makes/made appropriate ruins back then. Mostly I incorporate or alter bought terrain into my own pieces these days.

I enjoy scratchbuilding, sometimes more than gaming!

Love scratch buildings stuff! I prefer it to buying retail.

I do both. I'm not the greatest at scratch-building or model-making, so I do the coarser stuff myself and buy (and usually paint) the rest. Fantasy and sci-fi also seem easier to scratch-build, since I can hand-wave my errors away. The smaller scales (2-6mm) also seem to be better for scratch-building, at least to fumble-fingered me.

Some do. Some don't.
TMP link

I'm always happy to scratch build or convert something. The major issue is the time that it takes.

I'm always eyes down when out walking, just in case I find that bit or bob that might come in useful at a later date. As for buildings I have been something of a cardboard/paper builder, there are some lovely its available, not that some of the resin manufacturers don't have some gorgeous models available. Being classically trained (ie learnt up by "the war game) I did enjoy copying the balsa and card buildings of the era, with the removeable walls and cardboard flames! I'm not a classic gamer where everything has to be just as it was back in the day but I do enjoy Old School flourishes.

What I do find in the new crop of scenery wotnots that make life more interesting and easy are the new grass tufts, ivy n such, tuft mats, flowers tufts etc etc . Much nicer than teasing a piece of jupe rope or string then decorating.

regards
dave

Odd Fellows Wargaming Lounge

FOR ALL YOU SCRATCHBUILDERS!

"The Weekend" a small convention held in late June in the Lancaster Area features two events you might be interested in. One is an "Off-The-Table Modelling Contest" and the other is an "Off-the-Table-Painting Contest." The prizes in each contest are $25 USD first prize, $15 USD second prize and $10 USD third prize.

The contests are held to showcase the collections of the gamers and are NOT for finished diorama or ezquisitely painted figures that you put on a shelf. They are for table top pieces you have made and will use in your games, and it doesn't matter if they are old or been used many times. In fact, the dings and digs and so forth simply means it's well loved and well used!. What we are looking for is imagination and innovation in modellin and painting, and a unit of figures or a terrain piece that "has presence" that is, looks just really "neat!" We've had stuff like Sci-fi fighting machines, flyers and other equipment scarphed from McDonald's give-away prizes or odd bits of garbage, all carved and painted and put up into wonderful pieces and units for the game.

These things are only for stuff that, as the title says "Comes off the Table Top."

So if you want to come and see, and even better enter your creations, you are warmly invited.

Also prized are innovative devices, and terrain that is functional in some way. For example, next year I'm going to be entering one of myh "forest sections." These are hexagonal bases about 12" across beteen paralell sides. There is an inner wall and a flange to make a "box" with a lid so that troops inside can't be seen. There's a few small scenes and edge of the wood details on the outside.

That I've used for years, but in 2013 I'm entering a new entry. Instead of a hollow space inside there will be an ice-bucket to chill some bottles of Rhenish or Tokay with the lid being a matterh0rn type of mountain or high forested mountain.

another forest section will have a huge dead tree poking through the top foliage. The widely splayed branches of this will support an acetate disk on which one can rest one's wine glass while rolling the die

WHICH--

will be rolled into anothr section which will have, built into the lid, a dice tray.

I haven't scratch built in years, but typically it always had less than satisfactory results. When tabled with the commercial stuff, mine was truly crap so I tossed them.

Perhaps I should have spent more time and care… who knows. I'll stick to what's commercially available or if moneh allowss, buy some one else's artwork.

Sadly, I suffered a detached retina a few years back, and never regained 100 vision. Still some distortion. One of the fisrt things I noticed when I picked up a paint brush. Not daunted, I'll spend my time and money on other aspects of the hobby and outsource what I'm limited on.

If I can make it myself I will. If there is a ready built item at a reasonable price I will consider it so I can make other stuff that isn't available. Mostly that is terrain items. I have just made a terrain mat from a length of leaf green felt spraying with various earth and green tomes to tone it down. All my roads and rivers are scratch built as are some of my bridges. Some of my buildings are scratch built and some are resin. Trees I buy as i can't make them the way I want, although I am going to have to attempt some for 2mm games.

The fun is making from scratch and seeing a result that is as good as I can make it. Useful stuff that scratch, must get some more from the scratch shop.

I don't buy into the "no time to do it" line.
If its really your hobby, there's always time. If you can't spare any time to do your hobby, its not really your hobby then is it?

Ah! The old "You do it different to me so you are doing it wrong" line.

Actually you are right, 'scratch building' is not my hobby, wargaming is. My objective is to play with the toys, hence I'm a wargamer and not a modeller nor painter nor part time researcher.

Sometimes I have to do them all to get what I need or want to get a game. It's part of the wargaming hobby.

I suspect its more a product of the type of gamer who just wants to play a game rather than actually indulge in the modelling, painting, research, etc. aspects of wargaming. Their loss. I'm probably too old school to really relate to those types of wargamers.

I detect an undertone that suggests such people are bad people, not to mention just a hint of self rightiousness.

"Loss" is relative. If what I need is available and purchasing it helps create time for me to then game with the item then it's a gain.

Not to mention that those that buy actualy help the economy, help keep miniatures companies alive.

I could make my own Mobile Habitation Modules, but I'd rather buy them from Angel Barracks as a)they are nice and suit my needs and b)the purchases encourage the increase in his range as the range is a success, thus he creates the RDF figures that I want but could not acratch build.

One might ask, do you scratch build your own figures…?

Only those that answer 'yes' can consider it their hobby by your definition.

Our club has a member who's just completed a scratch built Bismark (the ship not the man). It's 4' long and he's also made a carry case so he can take it on the bus (he doesn't drive)…..he's working on the Swordfish to attack it now. Should all be ready for Derby a week on Saturday…..with luck!
He's a bit eccentric is our Brian…..follow link for pictures
roundhead1642.blogspot.co.uk

Wow – that ship is fantastic! Amazing building talents there. Does he do any Railway modelling as well?

Please do share the pics of Swordfish with us – that will be some sight.

Thank you for sharing with us all, alas my days of travelling and touring the wargames circuit in the UK is over, so I will not be able to see such magnificent model making as Brians's Bismark – thank you for sharing with us all on TMP.

He's got an 0 gauge layout running round his garden!

I can paint minis and ready sculpted terrain to a standard that I feel looks good on the table. I cannot sculpt, build or freehand paint to anything approaching a decent standard, so I buy all complex terrain.
This is about as fancy as my scratch-building gets:
link