"New TV Series "Revolution"" Topic

I love how no one can simply enjoy a tv show.

I enjoyed it. it was fun and worth the dvr space. sadly i feel it will go the same route as a few of my other fav shows "The Event" and "Flash Forward" which both died after one season.

I love how no one can simply enjoy a tv show.

I enjoy good ones!

;)

Plot Hole.

No Electricity is 1860, not 1760.

Steam power and Water wheels work just fine, as do chain saws with a 2 stroke pull starting engine.

In fact any old car with a starting handle still works, as do all those old steam engines, traction engines and all sorts of other tech.

And guess what, with out electricity you can still read all the plans, designs and methods for making all those things.

Total handwave.

"seriously, if all electricity cesed to function, than all life should snufff out too."

Plus there is the issue of the bonds holding matter together being electrical in nature. Davros came up with a plan like that…

I have read of, but never seen, anything like this since Zontar, the thing from Venus. See if you can see the parallel…

I can handwave all the stupid 'No electricity!!!ZOMG!!!' crap.

What totally kills it for me is the guns thing.

Because in 15 years my .45 ACP service auto will obviously turn to dust, and the millions upon millions of rounds in various gun stores, armories, and personal homes will become useless. And no-one will have the presence of mind to make a gun factory…like Samuel Colt's, for instance.

Oh.

Wait.

Maybe it's just because they are near Chicago? Chicagoans ARE pretty stupid. I suppose in the rest of the country (with the exception of NY and CA) everyone is equipped with lever-action rifles and revolvers. And metal cartridges.

*rolls eyes*

ok…electricity is gone…oh darn…pull out the emergency plans for replacing everything with steam and water wheels…

Send the word out to people not to panic when food is not getting delivered anymore…we still have chainsaws!!!

If we all work together, don't panic and not kill each other for food and remaining resources we will be able to get through this…1st priority is not food production, it's converting factories for steam tractors and locomotives…

ALL IS WELL!!!

Have not seen the show in any form except the trailer yet, but I do make note of a few things -

"No Electricity". My first thought was the same as expressed here first, but then I realised that this is a post-disaster world, like the days after Rome. People are looking for simple answers after relying on a massive support structure where they didn't have to know everything about how the system worked. so, they generalise – like those people who today say "We are running out of oil!" when they mean " We are running out of easily accessible oil!" They mean major electrical power sources.

And that makes sense with the presence of other minor electrical sources, if you assume that, as in Fredric Brown's "The Waveries" something is attacking Alternating Current ( As most electron transfer in nature is Direct Current). Which makes sense – AC is a waveform and theoretically you can cancel a wave by laying a phase shifted wave over it. That would have all the effects we see in the trailer and leave all the other systems standing.

Clean clothes is hardly a plot hole – it would be easier for suddenly deprived urbanites to keep their clothes clean without power than to create all the other technologies. Just ask the people of the city of Christchurch in my country about that one.

Why should hydroelectric power work when other forms don't? When you cut to the basics, all electrical power is generated exactly the same way – rotating a wire wrapping in a magnetic field. the way it is rotated varies – by the flow of water through a wheel attached to the shaft, by the movement of steam generated by burning something, by liquid metal heated by a critical nuclear reaction, or by the application of torque from the wind – and if the effect cancels the flow of electrical current, then it stops in the generator regardless of the motive power.

Restarting even an 1860s technology without modern electrical power is certainly possible; However, one has to consider how many of the resources available to do so would be around after a disaster like this, how many people would be concentrated in places to do so and whether the society left would be interested and able to do so rapidly. In fact, that is the reason I'd watch – to see how they handle the idea of a society coping with such a *fundamental* change to their life happening so immediately to them.

BTW, batteries attached to aerials such as in wireless computers and radios ARE affected by EMPs: they discharge completely via induction apparently, though batteries left out of devoices wouldn't be. Then again, how many people could make a battery above the level of a Leyden jar in an emergency?

Oh, and Chang1701, I agree, we are all over thinking this: While I deplore dumb TV, like any show where an elevator with it's cable cut falls down the shaft ( Big shout out to ALIAS for doing it right though ), I also believe that scrupulous nitpicking of a show to demonstrate one's intellect is counter-productive when the dramatic message or intent is lost ( Like the throwaway line in JERICHO when someone said that once the Internet was restored to the town, then could get anything they needed off the Net).

Anyway, why all this focus on scrupulously-written and meticulously planned out story arcs in shows these days? Where would M*A*S*H have been if that applied back then? I'd blame BABYLON 5, but I *like* B5. . . :)

Lotta spoilers above – glad I watched it first.

I liked it well enough to stay with it a bit – the fighting is decent, I liked the docs airplane trick (viewers know what I mean), and they don't shy from blood.

After Iron Man, Elf and any number of things I have tremendous respect for Jon Favreau who co-produced and directed the premier episode. As long as he's got some control I'm cautiously optimistic.

Alright, I'll give a partial pass on the crossbow, they still removed the stirrup which I expect would make it extremely difficult to load

Yep.

as do chain saws with a 2 stroke pull starting engine

Two-stroke gas engines still require the electrical spark to ignite the compressed gas.

Now compression-ignition(diesel) engines don't need that spark as the heat created by the compression is enough for ignition.

I'm of the opinion that if we managed to ward off high levels of civil disorder in the 15 years, even without 'electricity,' we could have a highly automated society* with comfort levels between those in the 1890's and 1950's. Though, obviously, there would be some differences.

Still, this show is one I can fall asleep too.

*pure mechanical automation is a mature technology and can take care of a good deal of today's everyday comfort and manufacturing needs. Sure, it is a good deal bulkier and requires more manpower, but it works. I am actually amazed at what can be done without electricity. And that is my biggest fault with the show, it is not very creative and it looks as if the creators didn't do any real research.

Waiting to see what Mad Magazine does with it.

The trailer showed the overgrown and weeded welcome to Wrigley Field sign outside the Chicago ballpark. In the trailer the legend at the base of the sign reads "2012 World Champions." but in the premiere the producers removed the verbiage. So, there is sci-Fi and there is silly.

So, 2013,then? :)

Wow. Quite a few opinions here. Let's examine them one by one.

No electricity: I have to bow to those scholars and scientists who know *much* more about the subject than I, but this was only the "pilot" episode. It's meant to introduce the premise and the characters, not to give a science lesson. I'll wait and see if there's an explanation that seems plausible. And even if it *isn't* plausible, I don't really care. I read pulp magazines. If I worried about *totally* plausible plots i'd never read another one. In fact, i'd probably stop watching TV and going to movies too.

Clothing: So they have clean clothing. What's wrong with that?

Some of the tee shirts look like they were bought at "The Gap" last week, but examining the other garments closely, they look home made. They are *very* well tailored, but definitely home made. As far as Katniss', whoops, I mean Charley's clothing, her leather pants are home made, her jacket is frayed at the cuffs and worn, as a 15 year old leather jacket should be, and her boots appear to have been modified or repaired in some way. Her hair should certainly be cut shorter or at least tied back, but *some* artistic license should be allowed.

Firearms: It's very silly to suggest that we would be returning to muskets within 15 years. Well maintained guns don't wear out, and brass can be reloaded to make new cartridges easily. Some of the villagers might make "zip guns" as guns are outlawed, but the warlord's men should all be carrying modern weapons. The show gets a great big "F" in the firearms department for that.

Weeds: Really? Do we actually care how long the weeds would get in 15 years? Do we actually want to discuss how long it would take for paint to deteriorate and rust to appear? This kind of deep examination seems a bit much to me.

Planes falling from the sky: Yep, they still had their lights blinking as they fell. I dunno. All electricity didn't disappear instantly at exactly the same time. It seemed to stop in waves. Like car engines failed first, then their headlights went out, then the city lights went out. (shrug) I dunno, but i don't think that I care, as once again, it seemed more dramatic to see the lights blinking as they went down. Not a show stopper for me.

Hidden computer equipment: I wondered why the woman's computer equipment looked so outdated too. I don't mind waiting for the explanation.

Acting: I've seen quite a bit of acting in movies and on TV in my time and I disagree that *all* of the acting was second rate. I thought that Maggie (the Doc) was just fine, especially when she offered the poisoned whisky and then garroted one of the outlaws. (-: Billy Burke is also believable as the near alcoholic, sword wielding Miles Matheson. The villains have yet to be fleshed out, but they look promising. Warlord Captain Tom Neville is menacing and volatile, just as a post-apoc villain should be, and Sebastion Monroe looks sufficiently evil.

After watching this entry for the 2nd time, I don't like Charley any better. She looks like an "Old Navy" model and she seems to be posing more than acting. I dunno. We'll see.

The "pilot", in general, was fun to watch, but i'm easy to please when it comes to pulp fiction. Give me plenty of action, violence and a cool hero, like Miles, and i'm in! The plot doesn't have to be believable. Just fun.

The Cubs becoming World Champions is what caused civilization to end.

The Cubs becoming World Champions is what caused civilization to end.

Now, see, THAT is a post-apocalyptic scenario I can believe in.

After watching this entry for the 2nd time, I don't like Charley any better. She looks like an "Old Navy" model and she seems to be posing more than acting.

The show was still in my DVR queue, so I fast-forwarded through it again this morning. I agree completely with this assessment of Charlie. Or, if not an Old Navy model, maybe Urban Outfitters.

FAIL.

By the way, anybody notice how much the evil warlord Captain Tom Neville looks like Obama?

No political statement here. I'm just sayin'. (-:

Watched it last night…really enjoyed it!!! Sorry.

As with any science fiction or fantasy show/book you have to be willing to suspend belief. We all have different tollerances on that.

I believe that if you liked Lost you'll like this. If you didn't like Lost you won't. Bottom line.

>>I believe that if you liked Lost you'll like this. If you didn't like Lost you won't. Bottom line.<<

I really don't think that it's that simple. Abrams was one of the co-creaters of "Lost" and he directed the first episode of that series, so it's not surprising that the style of his involvement with "Revolution" is noticeable, but not so much so that the average person would notice. In fact, i think that you could have hated "Lost" and still like "Revolution".

And vice versa.

>>And vice versa.<<

Yep.

It was fun, exciting and entertaining… just like I really enjoyed the show Lost. In the end that is what matters… at least watch the show once before you say negative things about it. Just the special effects of the post apoc scenery makes the show worth watching.
I think it will be similar to Lost and we will get answers about why things are happening as the season progresses? Isnt that what normally happens in a good adventure TV show?

At one time people probably were saying the sample negative things about the writing of Jules Verne… A rocket going to the moon!? How silly! How unbelieveable! I will not read such trash!

I have watched it and I am not too impressed with it. I really don't think it will last too long and will go the way of "V" which I really loved.

I don't buy that Monroe Republic because even if electricity did fail, the US Military is still around and so are the millions of guns they have along with the millions private citizens will have. I don't see some guy creating a militia and taking over an area with just a few shotguns and swords when there are gangs that pack AK-47s and probably ex-Soldiers and Marines running around with .50 cals, M4s, M249 Saws, etc.

The Monroe Republic probably WAS the US military stationed in that area.

>>The Monroe Republic probably WAS the US military stationed in that area<<

I suspect that's the situation and Sebastion Monroe and Miles Matheson were friends and Marine sergeants at the same base. That plot is gonna thicken.

During the first half of the 2nd episode Charlie was as annoying as ever. Maybe more so. But I have hopes that she'll become a better character now that she has performed an assassination.

I cant believe the naysayers. TV is rarely reality. The show does not profess to be. Generally TV is pretty much wasteland. So along comes this fantasy show with lots of eyecandy back ground and the reality groans start. Compare this to all the so called real reality shows, and other time fillers and I suspect many will find a reason to turn on the TV for fun for a change.

There's too much good TV out there to waste my time on this bad TV. YMMV

FAIL, FAIL, FAIL….

I'm done with it – I watched the first 5 episodes or so & really really dislike both the actress and character actions of the main character Charlie

I almost like the big bad uncle except it is obvious from his total lack of military bearing that he never had any military service – & was definatley NOT a marine – same goes for his buddy Monroe – the big bad guy

It also routinely happens that story points are exagerated well beyond their actual importance – like the difference one sniper rifle will make to the resistance & implausable/unbleivable actions occur so they can have what they feel to be a cool moment on scene – just feels forced, contrived and the result of sloppy writing and poor plot development.

I could live with the technical foibles since it is a sci-fi story and suspension of disbelief is necessary – its just that I don't like or find my self able to care about the characters & I feel the writing and siturations are forced and sloppy

"I almost like the big bad uncle except it is obvious from his total lack of military bearing that he never had any military service – & was definatley NOT a marine – same goes for his buddy Monroe – the big bad guy "

Don't worry, the writers will still make them ex-military, and probably ex-special ops at that.

Wow, you guys are brutal…. the show was actually really good and I just don't have the time to answer all of your questions… as a scientist, well… I can say this much… It is a lot more realistic than you might think. You guys are not thinking outside the box at all on this one.

I am very curious to see the explanation… My thoughts are this… the US government sent sattalites up that can jam and shut down electronics… high tech stuff… then they lost control of the them and, without power to get into space to regain control of them, we are stuck… powerless

Batteries work, well worked… the story takes place 15 years later… by this time pretty much all batteries manufactured would be about dead. And those that had any, I am sure are well hidden away.

The time gap is used to explain a LOT… and it isn't hand waving…. guns haven't ceased to work at all. And you still need technology to make the kinds of casing needed for todays firearms. As a reloader myself…. it is easy to reload… try making your own brass…etc… I assume that in 15 years… most of the modern ammo is gone.. again, just because we don't see it in the show doesn't mean it won't appear… muzzle loaders ar eeasier to mass produce and equip armies than having an army of tinkerers trying make modern ammo without the use of machines, etc… Not to mention mining and smelting equip to get lead, etc… the ability to get raw materials would cease to exist and mankind would instantly fall into striping anything they could from whatever they could.

Also, obviously steam power works as anyone watching the previews can see the steam locomotive Monroe's forces have. So we know pressure mechanics work… hydro electric don't though… the whole show hinges on the fact that electricity production doesn't work… and in today's world it is very possible to do this… Now take the leap of faith… the US govt created some orbiting platform that can do it better… and then lost control of it.

I can go on and on… there is some suspension of disbelief, but it is in no way as horrible as you self professed critics proclaim. In fact, everything I have seen thus far can be easily explained.

Clothing, come on… creative licensing here… really? Deal with it. I am sure you are all experts on what clothes will look like in 15 years? I still have clothes from high school that look new and that was 25 years ago…

Grass height…. just watch world without people…

And you are all seeming to forget that there was probably a horrible time of strife.. without long range communications… How does DC communicate with Chicago to tell them what to do? they gloss over what happened in those 15 years, but each episode reveals more and more… and so far, it is plausible. Without leaders, our military woudl fall apart… the infighting alone ot climb to the top would kill off most of the real soldiers in the time of strife.

I am sorry, science is functioning quite well… physics too… you guys just fail to realize how much you really do take electricity for granted and how primitive we would be without it. Basically go back to pre-industrial revolution.

People are ridiculing the dates, but let me ask you this… How many of you actually know how to can your own foods or create dry goods? We take so much for granted now a days that taking the globe off the grid would be far more devastating that you realize… How many of you are engineers AND can work metal hot or cold forge?

Without electricity many of you would be dead.
Knowledge is one thing… applied science another.

Man, I just don't have the time to go into how society would absolutely turn into chaos without electricity…

Well, you accomplished one thing, sport.

You proved that you are not a 'scientist', just somebody that doesn't bother to read posts.

It isn't 'plausible', it isn't 'realistic', and it isn't good writing.

And yeah, in case you didn't realize, alot of people on these boards, being either active or former military, have been to places on this planet where the only electricity was in the batteries we were using to power up our radios.

You seem to not have read any of the posts above….people are ridiculing the show not because of the premise…the audience can be expected to handwave that….but because of the crappy writing, and overall bad execution of the idea.

Hey evil Mike… SUCK it… sport.
I read them all… you want to insult me do it in person… Come find me at Fall-In! and we can talk all about the science and bug out techniques you want… even about blacksmithing, pressure vessels, metallurgy, sword making and even reloading… I am all a tingle with anticipation…

I earned my degrees in science and technology… Do you want me to sit back and say you were some reservist and you think you know about military life because you toured somewhere? And had to use batteries …. once….

You know very little about me and what I know… just as I know little about you. I don't hide behind the anonymity of a faceless blog. You can talk all of the smack about my opinion you want. If you want to insult me, do it in person.

It is a sci-fi show… it is plausible, it is remotely realistic…. I agree about the writing.

As was stated earlier… They said the same things in the 1800's and even early 1900's when people talked about going to the moon. Just because it hasn't been invented yet, doesn't mean it isn't plausible or possible. It wasn't long ago that they figured out sound waves can cause concussion damage and kill people.

And what? you don't think I don't have first hand experiences in electric free zones? Batteries don't last forever… they get used up…. creating batteries is not as easy as you think when you can't refine the chemicals or even make them. They use that 15 year gap in the show I think to help enforce the lack of and dwindling effects or residual technology.

And… I almost forgot… it is a tv show…. sport…

And these posters are NOT judging just the show by the merits and flaws you announce, they are clearly tearing apart the whole premise… saying it just isn't possible, while some argued that it is, but not like the way they see it. They are, of course, entitled ot their opinions, as am I… you didn't see me insulting them. I just expressed my opinion.

We are entitled to our opinions and can argue back and forth all we want…

Don't even think you know me well enough to insult me. I am almost ashamed that I let you get to me… what do you know?

>>And you still need technology to make the kinds of casing needed for todays firearms. As a reloader myself…. it is easy to reload… try making your own brass…etc<<

One of the main purposes of re-loading is to re-use brass cases, so they don't have to be manufactured. It's also possible to re-load primers if you have the correct chemicals and know how to do it. Lead bullet heads can be cast and you can find recipes for making simple Black Powder with easily found components. Voila! Cartridges! You don't need electricety either. I used a Lee hand Loader for years.

TS… you are correct…
Now, I pose this…
Ammo…. millions upon millions of already manufactured rounds… How many rounds did we use going into Tarawa or Normandy? There is a gross misunderstanding here on what is a "lot". In 15 years without modern technology to keep up with the need/fire rate…. we would QUICKLY run out of ammo. You said it yourself… SIMPLE BLACK POWDER… you won't be using that in any of your sniper rounds, that is for sure… so you ar eleft with paper rolled cartridges for what? muzzle loaders… wow… like they ar esuing in the show… quickly made, etc… You still need to be able to make the guns, etc… I admit making simple powder is easy, but you need to refine it to make good powder for today's high tech ammo, etc… you cannot do that easily enough without the know how… you can, however refine powder without electricity… The important thing here is quantity… today's firearms require high grade powder… which is made in huge batches in factories powered by electricity… yes, it can be made without electricity, but so slowly it could not keep the troops in supply… again… logisitcs, resupply and manufacturing. Our millitary might exists because of the technology that supports it.

On reloading… not all brass is suitable to be reused. unless you are a reloader already… have a fine time trying to get the molds, raw materials, etc… Not to mention making your own powder. Even with instructions, the powder needed to load the shells for guns with today's fire rates is damn near impossible. Especially making your own stuff… lets even assume you could… provided you could even get the materials to do so…materials anyone with any brains will be gunning for also… these too will quickly be depleated… Then what? There is no chemical batcher like Dow or DuPont without electricity… and home made "batches"… well… that isn't happeneing with enough quantity or quality for the fire rate.

What Colt did (best sidearm in my opinion the 1911) was ONLY POSSIBLE because he was able to BRING THE RESOURCES TOGETHER… regardless of what we know… the practicality of being able to bring all of the materials together in a splintered nation to do what Colt did would be damn near impossible… logistics, resupply and manufacturing…

Without electricity the war machine stops… infighting occurs… Look what happen when power was lost in NY… within 3 hours almost total anarchy arose… and that was in very recent times…. and those people could easily have driven an hour away from the NY area and had power again.

The human element is totally unpredictable… we know one thing. Most people are sheep and would resort to panic, etc.. within hours of such an event… imagine weeks going by… no phones, no power, NO water, NO food… society would collapse… the millitary would do their best, but without a central command (communications) it too would devolve into what the show represents.

Now, one thing is certain… I do understand the grief about "no way in hell are the those guys on a Marine base"… I am waffeling on this… I have nothing but the utmost respect for all of our service men and women.. and yes it struck me oddly how these two… and not the command staff would have been acting.. but, following protocol, the central base command was probably following a "sit tight" protocol. That part is wonky, but still NOT unbelievable or far fetched as many soldiers, seeing the panic outside the base and the murdering etc… woudl be very likely to want to check on their families. Thus you have lots going AWOL.

Technology marches on… without the technology… you don't have the manufacturing process to keep up with the need.

And lets talk logistics and manufacturing… Sure, all of the "information" will be out there "somewhere"… and unles you are a prepper or some such person… last I checked… millitary based don't teach you to make guns or powder… they train you to be an effective fighting machine. God bless our service men and women… but wihtout the technology, no other process would be capable of keeping up with the demands. Logistics…. well, you only have to ask the Marines caught behind enemy lines in Kuwait… they laid low and held tight, they were very frugal with all of ther rations, equipment and rounds… because until the rest of the forces caught up to them, they were without re-supply….

Now.. when is the last time you guys went to a library? They are far and few between now a days in our "tech" age… and, who is to say if you will find any books at all usefull in our days of tight homeland security where even the Anarchist cookbook is removed form shelves… And, even if they are to be found… who is to say someone else didn't get there first?

Now, even the best prepper out there has one downfall… they are loners… very well prepared.. but still loners… yes, you sit on all of that and live in your compound… sooner or later you will be drawn into a fight… and all it takes is superiority in numbers to finish you off… like they said in the show… they kept attacking until the sharpshooter ran out of ammo… again, thus making the muzzle loader a prime piece of equipment..

When manufacturing ceases to exist, so does resupply… and then when you must resort to primitive process for modern tech manufacturing, you cannot possible keep up with the demand. The only reason we have guns that can fire so much is because we can produce the rounds necessary to do so quickly… without that speed… supplies disappear much quicker than you think. Even if you reload your own ammo… who is reloading during the firefight? No one could possible keep up with the usage… again.. no resupply…

I won't even get into the food issues… Simply put… America would starve and starving people fight very hard to take what they need…

And what do you do when you run out of ammo? Ask the enemy to stop while you gather brass and go into the basement and reload? What about when supplies run low? no more lead, poweder or chemicals to make powder…. do you have the knowledge to make more? Even if you did… do you have the raw materials stockpiled?

The logistics of the ney sayers in this arguement fall apart rapidly…. In 15 years, we could easily be at a very poor state indeed.

And now…. fast forward for 15 years…. yes, absolutely… I see people trying to scrounge for resources, find old weapons, etc… but you won't be seeing factories popping up… without the logistics to get the raw materials, etc… what good is a firearms factory when you cannot get the materials you need to… make the parts, machine the parts… run the batching for the chemicals, etc….

In 15 years you might be able to get some steam type factories up and presses and lathes set up… but now have a fine time trying to find ones to use… everything is geared to power… you cannot easily convert a power lathe over to steam… not to mention they all have computers attached now a days… you will have so find some very old band lathes… the same goes for your press punches, cutters, etc…

People won't be organized enough to be that far in 15 years… there would be many years of infighting, crime and brutality as "regimes" came and went…

And, like I said… the vast majority of people would be more concerned about food, water and sanitary conditions… there would be an exodus from the cities as they could not support the number of people… do you know how much food is imported into NY City each day to support the population?

And… in the a very short time… raw materials would be gone… without a way to mass produce them….resupply would be almost non existant…

Man, I could go on and on and on… oh, wait.. I am….

I am not trying to knock anyone, but I think today people are getting farther and farther out of touch with the reality of the frailness of humanity and the fact that without electricity… (no matter how they stopped it)… total anarchy would set in… You ever see a teenage girl lose their phone for 5 minutes?

Today, everyone is dependant on electricity… without it, society would collapes… even as a prepper, I am nothing after I burn through my ammo… and even a few thousand rounds against a well prepared, determined attacker… would leave me nothing… out of ammo… and ready to be pillaged. Even a desperate mob could opvercome a prepper if they have the numbers and the promise of food and water… imagine what a group of ex-military could do? We like to think we are safe with all of our guns, etc… we are not.

Poniatowski

I like the show, and i'm willing to give the writers a pass on most of the issues, but not on the weapons.

Manufacturing brass cased cartridges is a pre electricity technology. I'm sure that any post apoc leader would try to find a way to return to it. If he didn't he'd be the worst leader ever. Manufacturing without electric power is just a matter of utilizing the huge amount of manpower available in the 20th century. I would have been able to re-load hundreds of cartridges per day with my hand loader. Imagine the amount of cartridges that could be produced by thousands of workers. I think that you're under esitmating American resilience and resourcefulness.

While it's true that many modern guns work better with smokeless powder, there are still plenty of bolt action and lever action rifles and revolvers around that would work fine with black powder cartridges. They might not deliver as much fire power as automatic weapons, but they are certainly better than flintlock rifles and muskets. Want more firepower than that? How about a Gatling gun?

TS,
Yes I am agreeing with you too to a great degree.
Where we diverge is here: (and it is ok I assume that we differ). Now we are getting to great debate and fun conversation.

I am just making speculation based upon what I have seen of the show. I coudl be totally wrong and admit that, but that is the fun of speculation… like for LOST… what kept a lot of people watching was they wanted to find everything out… I stopped watching it when it got too zaney…

Now, we know Monroe is fighting wars on more than one front and at the moment, he is being pressed hard for territory in the fertile corn belt region.

I assume his best fighting forces are at the borders.. thus better armed and equipped than militia forces. There would be, I am sure, suite of kevlar, dragon armor, even weapons and such… maybe even .50 cal still out there.

I would also assume he is smart enough to instantly set about getting supply bases and resources set up. As is evident by him getting surviving powerless equipment to him… like the helicopter he was trying to get moved to his base.

Now.. my assumption of 15 years later when the story starts, most modern arms and ammo has been spent… regular production to replace the ammo cannot keep up with the demand…

Enter quick, down right dirty weapon manufacturing… Wars are won with supply, logistics, etc… making cheaper black powder em mass is easier than taking the time to refine and reload for high tech weaponry. The enemy would be facing the same supply and ligistics as Monroe. And, as we clearly saw… there are MANY hold outs who are harboring modern firearms (the deer hunter who got killed).

For the general population though.. the militia has simple black powder… as regular modern weapons and ammo are comfiscated and sent??????? It does the work. as for cartridges… I'll agree with you… there are a lot of transitional weapons out there… trapdoor springfields, etc… even the gattlin gun.. which I am sure will make an appearance. This is where they pull the hocus-pocus routine…

Guns are illegal to own (population control)
Why don't they have this "almost-modern" tech… probably for "show" purposes… they really wanted to give the appearance in the show that things have gotten that bad. We know modern stuff exists as the millitia leader has a desert eagle??? and the leader of the "helicoper-moving" crew had a sniper rifle…

The weapons are out there and even maybe a stockpile of ammo…. To control the population though…. they want to keep anything modern out of the "rebels" and "general populace's" hands…. I can see having the millitia with more primitive weapons on purpose. Maybe they didn't have to manufacture the transitional weaponry? maybe it was a choice to give them primative stuff and keep the big guns back for leaders and the actual soldiers on the fronts?

So much speculation… where is the body armor? Surely it all hasn't been destroyed???

So that takes us back to the "image" the writers want us to see, archaic, backwards… it can definitely be written better.

All I can say is… we shall see… and I hope I am not wasting my time… the show has some serious potential.

My biggest problem is the Monroe soldier wiht the bow.. the tracker…. If the lead guy trained the army and was a general… he woudl know that the tracker shoudl be killed, regardless of the brewing love interest between Charlie and him.

Yes, there are plot holes… not so bad though as I am mostly looking at… "could it happen this way? Is this actually possible?"

I have been giving a lot of thought to the world without electricity…. it has been fun!

I believe we will see much higher tech in the future…