"Blücher or Bluecher" Topic
15 Posts
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Maxshadow | 14 Sep 2012 12:09 a.m. PST |
Can anyone help? Which is correct for the old General? |
brunet | 14 Sep 2012 1:33 a.m. PST |
AFAIK both. Although the best is Blücher the "ü"can be written as "ue". eg "Köln" (Cologne) can be written as "Koeln" |
Sparker | 14 Sep 2012 1:36 a.m. PST |
Well it was the good ship 'Blucher' that was sent to the bottom at the Battle of the Dogger Bank in 1915
Does that help? |
brunet | 14 Sep 2012 1:48 a.m. PST |
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Decebalus | 14 Sep 2012 1:53 a.m. PST |
The correct writing is Blücher. And the ship was also called SMS Blücher, see the german wikipedia article. link Because the dots in the "ü" are an abbreviation of an "e", you can also write "ue". But correct would be "ü". |
Maxshadow | 14 Sep 2012 2:21 a.m. PST |
Thanks alot and it explains why both are some times used. Blucher with out the dots is missing e which the dots replace. Thanks again. |
Cardinal Hawkwood | 14 Sep 2012 4:30 a.m. PST |
and as wiki will tell you also sunk again in 1940 "Blücher was the second of five Admiral Hipper class heavy cruisers of the German Kriegsmarine, built after the rise of the Nazi Party and the repudiation of the Treaty of Versailles. Named for Gebhard Leberecht von Blücher, the victor of the Battle of Waterloo, the ship was laid down in August 1936 and launched in June 1937. She was completed in September 1939, shortly after the outbreak of World War II. After completing a series of sea trials and training exercises, the ship was pronounced ready for service with the fleet on 5 April 1940. Assigned to Group 5 during the invasion of Norway in April 1940, Blücher served as Konteradmiral Oskar Kummetz's flagship. The ship led the flotilla of warships into the Oslofjord on the night of 8 April, to seize Oslo, the capital of Norway. Two old 28 cm (11 in) coastal guns in the Oscarsborg Fortress engaged the ship at very close range, scoring two hits.[1] Two torpedoes fired by land-based torpedo batteries struck the ship, causing serious damage. A major fire broke out aboard Blücher, which could not be contained. After a magazine explosion, the ship slowly capsized and sank, with major loss of life. The wreck remains on the bottom of the Oslofjord." good old Norwegians,,
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Cardinal Hawkwood | 14 Sep 2012 4:35 a.m. PST |
them dots are "umlauts", they represent a dipthong , again wiki come to one's aide 'A diphthong ( /ˈdɪfθɒŋ/ or /ˈdɪpθɒŋ/;[1] Greek: δίφθογγος, diphthongos, literally "two sounds" or "two tones"), also known as a gliding vowel, refers to two adjacent vowel sounds occurring within the same syllable. Technically, a diphthong is a vowel with two different targets: That is, the tongue moves during the pronunciation of the vowel. In most dialects of English, the words eye, hay, boy, low, and cow contain diphthongs." English used to have some useful dipthongs "Æ (minuscule: æ) is a grapheme formed from the letters a and e. Originally a ligature representing a Latin diphthong, it has been promoted to the full status of a letter in the alphabets of some languages, including Danish, Norwegian, Icelandic and Faroese. As a letter of the Old English Latin alphabet, it was called æsc ("ash tree") after the Anglo-Saxon futhorc rune ᚫ (), which it transliterated; its traditional name in English is still ash /æʃ/." |
Henrix | 14 Sep 2012 6:41 a.m. PST |
Ü isn't a diphthong. 'Them dots' is called umlaut in English. Some German umlauts use them, but not all letters with dots are umlauts in the German sense. Nor are all umlauts, or letters with ¨ diphthongs. A diphthong is like the compound vowel sound in 'house'. English is well stocked with them. Ü isn't one. And neither is Å, Ä, Ö, Æ or Ø. (Normally, of course, dialects vary. South Swedish, Skånska, for instance, diphthongises about any vowel.) They can be tricky for English speaking natives as there are not really any equivalent English vowels. |
Joe Fish | 14 Sep 2012 6:43 a.m. PST |
As a high school student learning German in the '60's I remember our teacher saying the umlaut sound can be made simple to remember in that that you make the vowel sound (sans umlaut) while pursing your lips 'as if to kiss a mule."
..Which while overly colorful has always proven useful to me. If nothing else it brings an inward smile as you pronounce a word with an umlaut. Spelling the name as Bluecher approximates the sound, but it's only an approximation. Better than saying Ypres is 'Wipers' though. |
The Virtual Armchair General | 14 Sep 2012 11:02 a.m. PST |
Henrix is quite right. In German, a common occurance is the appearance of two vowels together (e.g. "Graf Spee"). What used to be called a "dipthong glide" applies in German whereby the second of the two vowels is the only one pronounced, and that pronunciation is the "long" version. Thus, "Graf Spee" is pronounced "Grahf SHPAY," "Einsatz" is "EYEnzahtss," "Ein, Zwei, Drei, Vier
" as "EYEn, TsvEYE, DrEYE, FEEr,
," etc. Umlauts are rendered as two vowels simply because the double dot symbol doesn't normally appear on English typewriters or keyboards. Learning to pronounce them really requires being able to hear someone say them to you, give a hint or two, and then keep trying until you've got it. I just can't do that HERE! TVAG |
Sparker | 14 Sep 2012 2:25 p.m. PST |
and as wiki will tell you also sunk again in 1940 Yes, well, I was trying to be tactful
. 'Don't mention the war! I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it!' As a matter of fact both ships were fine examples of German naval architecture and soaked up an incredible amount of damage before finally going down to Davy Jone's locker
.The first one was more of an armoured cruiser than a battlecruiser, and took as much punishment as a ship of twice its displacement should have. Probably shouldn't have been in the line of battle in the first place
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Tankrider | 14 Sep 2012 3:50 p.m. PST |
"BLUCHER!" :::: horse whinney :::: Cuz' it HAD to be said! But active duty 5 April and sunk by Norwegians on 8 April? Good 'ol Norwegians indeed! |
Cardinal Hawkwood | 15 Sep 2012 2:11 a.m. PST |
yep they were good ships indeed.. on the umlaut situation I am happy to stand corrcted. Blucher began his military career as a Swedish hussar. |
brunet | 15 Sep 2012 4:24 a.m. PST |
No, this was Blücher (or Bluecher) Sorry, couldn't let this slip |
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