"Lance 3rd Questions?" Topic

I've dusted off my copy of Lance 3rd, and am going to try them a bit.

I'm looking for someone who could answer a few basic things. Some really basic. I've never played any games that I can think of with this type of casualty counting.

Do you play as though you have lost a figure when you reach every 20 casualties, since each figure represents 20 men? Or are casualties only a factor in combat and morale modifiers?

I'm assuming Percentage of Casualties is a straight comparison of losses vs 20xFigures?

Wish there were an example of play somewhere.

You count casualties. every 20 = one figure.

Standard for the period, every 20 casualties remove a figure.

percentage casualties was:

no of casualties x 100
----------------------
number of men

or:

no of casualties x 5
--------------------
number of figs

Tom..

Thanks. Either of you have much general experience with them? I've written and outline of the and have a few questions. Thx.

Like I said elsewhere, I used to play them a lot but it was 30+ years ago. Ask away and I'll try to remember.

Tom..

Thanks for the offer –

Here's what I came up with on some unclear things -

The rules talk about on Page 15, about being able to Cancel a Charge if the distance ends up too far to make contact – if the distance is too far "the charge is cancelled".

The rules talk about on Page 14, Loss of Formation, that "failing to make contact with an enemy after one round" causes a unit to go Unformed.

So if a charge that can't make contact is automatically cancelled, then how does the Loss of Formation ever occur.

On Page 17 under Casualties per Fig, it says that the "Maximum factor for this [cas/fig] is -6" So I just feel like I'm readying something wrong. No matter how many casualties, once you get to 6cas/Fig, more losses do not count in terms of modifiers for anything???

The rules say that Lances make "impact missile fire". Is that correct? Not sure how Lances act as Missiles.

Lastly, there is the sequence of Knights charging a multiple rank foot line. They basically fight one rank at a time until the burst through or they a beaten, and recoil out the way them came.

But on P25 there is this discussion of "penetrating troops are engaged by a enemy to their rear then no recoil is possible and they are surrounded" Not sure how this could occur. They are fighting through one rank at a time, each rank facing them, so if you break thru to the 2d rank, the first rank has its rear facing the rear of the Knight unit.

In the same section it talks about where a recoil is specified, the direction of movement is perpendicular from the side of the unit contact. Don't get that one either. Recoil sideways???

That's about it.

Gotta love the old English rulesets for clarity.

The rules say that Spears and Lances are Impact Weapons

The rules talk about on Page 15, about being able to Cancel a Charge if the distance ends up too far to make contact – if the distance is too far "the charge is cancelled".

The rules talk about on Page 14, Loss of Formation, that "failing to make contact with an enemy after one round" causes a unit to go Unformed.

So if a charge that can't make contact is automatically cancelled, then how does the Loss of Formation ever occur.

If you destroy the enemy on contact or they flee and you can't catch them you loose formation…

On Page 17 under Casualties per Fig, it says that the "Maximum factor for this [cas/fig] is -6" So I just feel like I'm readying something wrong. No matter how many casualties, once you get to 6cas/Fig, more losses do not count in terms of modifiers for anything???

Correct, more than 6 per fig (30%) counts as -6. There is only so much you can hurt a unit.

The rules say that Lances make "impact missile fire". Is that correct? Not sure how Lances act as Missiles.

The rational is that long weapons (eg lances) and close range missiles (eg maces) have an effect at the start of melee, this is covered by "impact missile fire"

Lastly, there is the sequence of Knights charging a multiple rank foot line. They basically fight one rank at a time until the burst through or they a beaten, and recoil out the way them came.

But on P25 there is this discussion of "penetrating troops are engaged by a enemy to their rear then no recoil is possible and they are surrounded" Not sure how this could occur. They are fighting through one rank at a time, each rank facing them, so if you break thru to the 2d rank, the first rank has its rear facing the rear of the Knight unit.

It's not just knights that penetrate formations. Troops can do this in a sequence of moves.

In the same section it talks about where a recoil is specified, the direction of movement is perpendicular from the side of the unit contact. Don't get that one either. Recoil sideways???

side = edge they recoil away from the enemy that hit them

If they are contacted on the front edge, they recoil perpendicular to the front edge (ie straight back).
If they were contacted on the left edge, they recoil to the right.
If contacted to the rear edge, they recoil forward.

Thx very much.

Just one last clarification –
I'm still not seeing how a unit caught in the middle during a penetration can end up behind hit from the rear. Is it in a subsequent turn if the enemy does an about face?

Finally –
Are the rules worth serious consideration playing? I like lots of mods and all and they read like they play well.

Penetration occurs over several moves. A small unit cuts its way into a large deep unit. If the opponent has time he can wrap figures round to attack the attackers.

For their period Lance were a very good set of medieval rules. The could be a bit overly complex and needed record keeping etc. I find that you can get as good a game with more modern sets. I should also say that Shattered Lances is far and away the best set of Medieval rules.

I've played Shattered Lances and use them for my 1st Crusades, and I like them. Just looking for something different to try for Baron's War.

So if you Penetrate, you don't fight the 2nd Rank immediately, but wait for the next Turn?

The rules seems to say Phase a lot, when I'm assuming they mean Turn.

Shattered Lances work very well for European fights as well. The loss of the more exotic types changes the balance and you have to adjust your tactics.

In Lance a turn was made up of phases, I don't remember the exact details to be honest.

Knights get to fight multiple opponents, other troops don't.