"The Battle of Skariffhollis 1650?" Topic

Can anyone give any detailed information on the Battle of Skariffhollis that took place in Co.Donegal between an Irish Confederate army and a Parliamentarian army in 1650.

I'd specifically like to know:
1. If the Parliamentarian army could be classed as "New Model"?

2. I understand that some of the local protestant population from nearby Derry were part of the Parliamentarians, but does anyone have any idea of how many and would they have been militia, or maybe a type of trained band?

Finally, it is accepted the the Irish lost disproportionally, heavier losses, around 2000 on the field, after forming a dense mass, and 1000 in the pursuit. So did the Parliamentarian side have artillery to devastate the Irish so convincingly, as only about 100 Parliamentarians were recorded as casualties?

I know the Irish didn't have artillery, and were short of powder for muskets. I also know that they came of a hill, a better tactical position, to give battle.

I'm stabbing in the dark here and any information would be appreciated. The only details that I can find are sketchy at best.

According to "Cassell's Battlefields of Britain & Ireland" by Richard Brooks, Weidenfeld & Nicolson, 2005, pp508-509:
The British (Parliamentarian) army had 600 horse and 1800 foot, though it is unclear whether this includes Coote's 1000 reinforcements. The Royalists had about 3000 infantry and 500 horse.

1. If the Parliamentarian army could be classed as "New Model"?

Probably not. Again according to Brooks, this was the "Laggan Army", not formal Parliamentarians, but British regiments that had been fighting Irish "rebels" since 1641.

2. I understand that some of the local protestant population from nearby Derry were part of the Parliamentarians, but does anyone have any idea of how many and would they have been militia, or maybe a type of trained band?

Sorry, no idea. Brooks doesn't mention them.

So did the Parliamentarian side have artillery to devastate the Irish so convincingly, as only about 100 Parliamentarians were recorded as casualties?

Brooks doesn't say anything about artillery on either side.

Margard, thanks for the reply. This is really getting quite interesting for me. Its a local battle that's not even marked by the Irish tourist board, as far as I know, but I intend to take a drive down to the site as soon as I've time.

I must get a read at Brooks' book. I take his point about the Laggan Army involvement. However, the following information still puzzles me:

As I understand it Cromwell detaches a force of "New Model" ,after Drogheda, under Venables, and sends them North. Venables eventually links up with Coote at Londonderry, after Coote is forced to withdraw to the city from an earlier stand-off with the Confederates as a result of being outnumbered. However, reinforced by Venables, both march out to face McMahon at Skariffhollis. So whilst it seems that Brooks would argue that they didn't meet up I can't see why Coote would withdraw from a fight because of numbers and then re-engage with the same odds.

Finally, one other tantalising piece of information that I've come across is that the initial parliamentarian assault at S/hollis was lead by (Col?) Fenwick. Now, in the Osprey book on the New Model Army, (I know Osprey are not exactly renowned for their reliability), there is a list of colonels that accompanied Cromwell to Ireland, and one of those was a certain Colonel Fenwick. It would be interesting to find out if they were one and the same person. If this was the case it would lend another bit of weight to the assertion that maybe there were New Model forces involved.

Anyway thanks again for your attempt to fill the gaps.

Cromwell in Ireland by James Scott Wheeler gives a good account of the battle.
The army was not New Model. The Lagan army was raised and fought in that area since the rebellion in 1641. Good quality troops well equiped fighting on their own territory. They were good. Coote started the campaign with 600 horse and 800 foot. He was reiforced by another 1000 foot.
No mention is made of guns. The reason for the heavy losses is the catholic army under Bishop MacMahon collapsed and was hunted down by Cootes army.

Bit more reading
Venables regiment had come from England thus could be considered new model.
Colonel Fenwick is said to have lead the attack with 150 men, musketeers on assumes. He died in the battle

Thanks Pickedon, I think we are singing from the same hymn-sheet here. It does seems that there is at least the possibility that there were New Model elements, from Venables force, at the battle.

I just want to correct what I said earlier about the battle not being marked:

I think there is now a monument to commemorate the battle.

Pickedon, approx 1000 of the Irish casualties are a result of pursuit after they do indeed "collapse". I think they get chased relentlessly for about 10 miles. This however, does not account for the 2000 casualties on the field prior to the "collapse". I think the collapse is a result of the 2000 or so battlefield casualties. Not the other way round. Some sources state that the Irish were "stubborn" and "resolute".
I also think that there were 3 crucial elements to the large number of Irish casualties.
1. Irish leadership: McMahor against the advice of more experienced subordinates, brings the Irish down from high ground to fight the Parliamentarians and form them up into an immobile "dense mass". Maybe something like an older Spanish tercio formation. So he losses a tactical advantage and has no mobility.

2. The Irish are short of powder so can only sustain the battle for so long, while Coote has just recently been resupplied.

3. The Irish have twice as many Pikemen as they do Musketeers. Combined with the fact that they find themselves without powder and in a dense mass,albeit resolute, and that the parliamentarians are pouring shot into their ranks. They simply don't have a answer to such fire-power. Now if the Parliamentarians had field pieces too, which, by the way, I don't think they did due to the roads or rather lack of roads, then those sorts of casualties can be suffered in a very short period of time.

Without any evidence to back me up I have always taken it that this was another Dungans Hill. The Ulster army collapsed. those closest to the enemy tried to surrender and no quarter was given. Those further away ran for it and were cut down by the cavalry.
Knocknanuss, Dungans Hill and Newtownbutler 50 years latter all have similar casualty ratios and a similar cause. Those were brutal times.

Hi Redlancer38,
What you need to know about Scarrifsholis 1650? No Artillery in battle, lost due to mismanagement, loss of command and control, failure to use terrain use superior position against enemy! Battle and its skirmishes cover hundreds of square miles from Letterkenny to Glenties and from Letterkenny to Barnes gap. Main battle occurs and then numerous smaller skirmishes with lots of confirmed mass graves associated with battle throughout central Donegal. Ulster Army , Confederates, Lagganeers and Royalists fought together against parliamentarian troops under Coote Jnr, 50% of Lagganeers went into Parliamentarian service 1647 other 50% went with Royalists. Casualties unknown but it is in the thousands 2-4000, casualties on field 2000 approx, does not count those killed in the clearances afterwards and other sites. Anyway I live in Letterkenny (about 4miles from each battlefield and know the three main Battlefields very well (Farsetmore 1567, Glenmaquin 1642 and Scarrifsholis 1650) also the williamite war battle sites and those of 1798 and Wolfe Tone, so contact me anytime if you want to come over for a ramble, many Regards sorry about rushed reply heading out the door.

Here is a link to a basic map I did on the environs of the battle hope this helps clarify the issue. Regards link